Dec. 19th, 2021

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 Lambert Strether

> Five minutes on the VAERS site

Needs a link. An addition, AFAIK, no quality assurance is performed on VAERS data. Am I wrong?

 
  1. IM Doc

    I am not sure there is anyway to link to a VAERS query once you have left the main page.

    You can go to the VAERS site here – https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

    There is no way I can tell to do any linkage after you have started a query – but then again – I am fairly computer illterate.

    Unfortunately, it took me weeks and weeks of playing with this before I could ever come up with a correct search. Interestingly, all the time, searching through this leads to different findings. I am sure there are just tweaks or wording issues.

    This is a hideously cumbersome system – I think they did it this way on purpose.

    I did this same search (see my other comment) and found almost exactly the same findings.

    There is no quality assurance – but it is easy to tell that some of these entries are very likely legitimate. Some of the others – who knows?

    I just have no clue how to link anything once you have left the front page.

Industrial Culture Handbook

“The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for prevention or treatment of COVID-19,” equals “do not prescribe.” — Hope is the enemy. If Covid doesn’t kill you, a secondary infection will.

Monoclonal antibodies and the vaccine are almost the same thing, the difference is the vaccine allows your own body to create antibodies as opposed to a lab creating antibody proteins with an intensive use of resources.

 
  1. Lambert Strether

    > “The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for prevention or treatment of COVID-19,” equals “do not prescribe.”

    It does not. A doctor may prescribe Ivermectin for off-label use regardless of the FDA or CDC’s opinion. I don’t know what you mean by secondary infection. The placebo effect (“hope”) doesn’t cause them, so far as I’m concerned.

     
    1. The Rev Kev

      Here in Oz, our doctors have been forbidden from prescribing the horse-paste to those who want it for protection from the virus or as treatment. I suspect that this was done as part of negotiations with pharma companies as a precondition for importing their vaccines here. We are still importing Remdesivir though so there is that.

      https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/australian-gps-banned-from-prescribing-ivermectin-to-covid19-patients/news-story/6291379ada4720568584c7717651f794

       
  2. IM Doc

    I am very sorry to inform you – but you are completely and terminally wrong in your assessment of the FDA approval issue.

    Once a drug is approved by the FDA for any use whatsoever – any licensed physician in this country can use that drug for whatever indication he/she may deem doable. This has been this way for decades.

    This has never been questioned before either. There are all KINDS of drugs out there in every day use that are not approved for the indications they are being used for. BOTOX, all the hormone blockers for gender transitioning, amiodarone for AFIB, I can go on all day.

    If they push this too hard with ivermectin not being allowed to be prescribed – they are going to open up a pharmaceutical wasp nest like nothing ever seen in this country. Just wait till the red states start banning the hormone blockers for gender transition as just one of many many examples.

     

Lee

In related news:

Ivermectin: Australian regulator bans drug as Covid treatment after sharp rise in prescriptions

Ivermectin: Northern Ireland seizures of unproven horse drug used for Covid

The combination of viral mutations and waning immunity, whether from vaccines or infection, could make treatments such as monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, or something yet to be discovered our the best option for individual survival and the avoidance of civilizational collapse.

And why the hell are those RCTs of ivermectin we’ve heard so much about taking so long?

 
  1. clarky90

    A suicidal intake of ivermectin was reported in a 19-year-old woman with severe Loa-Lao filariasis. She developed nausea and vomiting, and moderate neurological manifestations including ataxia, reactive mydriasis and hyperreflexia after possibly ingesting 100 times the recommended therapeutic dose (≈400 3-mg ivermectin tablets). She received conventional supportive treatment and could be discharged from hospital on day 4 post-ingestion [Djeunga et al., 2019].

    “ivermectin human toxicity cannot be claimed to be a serious cause for concern.”

    EXPERT REVIEW REPORT
    MEDICAL SAFETY OF IVERMECTIN

    Link to Toxicology report (requires email for free PDF download): https://www.medincell.com/ivermectin/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATiX0-2PEr4&t=251s

     
    1. IM Doc

      I can suicide on Tylenol – I can suicide on Advil – I can suicide on Listerine Mouthwash. All are easily available OTC.

      A suicide overdose – where bottles of pills may be involved is not even in the same league of issues as a toxic side effect.

      Suicidal overdoses are handled completely differently by the authorities.

      The TRUTH of the matter is this agent has been in wide distribution over continents for the past 40 years. It has literally been given in billions of doses at this point. It has one of the best safety profiles of any drug in the PDR.

      The fact that one patient committed suicide with it – is not evidence of a safety problem with the drug. That is an apples to oranges comparison. I am pretty sure if I took 100 times the recommended dose of pretty much any medication in the PDR I would be dead. By the way, that is not just pharmaceuticals – you can absolutely overdose yourself to death on plain simple tap water.

       

IM Doc

I would just like to make certain that everyone knows that there are indeed reports in VAERS of testicular swelling after the vaccine. I am able to find about a dozen. I have not searched for adjacent type diagnoses – lymph node swelling, genital pain, etc. All of these dozen or so reports date back long before this whole issue – and some of them have been filled out by physicians. I have also looked for erectile dysfunction. Quite a few hits – but after looking over them, I can not be certain about the provenance. Honestly, there are quite a few, extending back for months. and I just do not have time to read over them. They are there, however.

I am saying this because if you look at the PDR entry on any pharmaceutical used in the USA, you are going to find a laundry list of complications and side effects. This often goes on for 2-3 pages in very small type. They are forced to list every single one.

The VAERS is all we have right now. However, when the PDR entry of this vaccine is finally published, if it is true to form, both testicular swelling and erectile dysfunction should appear in the long list of side effects.

I have no idea what is going on with this young singer. But the fact that these issues exist on VAERS is a problem for all those bashing her today for making stuff up – or her family making stuff up. These issues appear to be rare. RARE IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE. RARE HAPPENS. To wit, I am personally dealing with a patient in the hospital this minute with a condition that happens in America only 1-2 times a year. For whatever reason, the “rare fairies” delivered this patient to my ER yesterday.

I cannot support bashing her given the facts that are available. Patients in my practice have had very strange and almost unique reactions to this vaccine – I have no doubt that this could very well have happened to her family member. Hopefully, he sought medical attention.

Why do media and social media figures feel they have the authority to question anyone else’s medical issues? When did this ever start being something in our discourse? I get it with political figures or Presidential candidates….but a family member of a rock singer in Trinidad? Are there not more important things to talk about on these news shows?

Disparaging others on national media for stating their truths is just inexcusable. Especially coming from St Joy Ann Reid. Look at how fast Ms Minaj destroyed Ms Reid. It is very easy to do when your opponent is a moral zero. I just cannot believe the media in this country. Nor can I believe the Twitter mobs – but more importantly the Twitter corporation censoring her for this kind of thing is very ominous indeed.

 
  1. Lambert Strether

    As I understand it, VAERS is system of poorly vetted digital submission. In other words, it’s more like 4Chan than the curated NC comments system. To me, it’s not trustworthy.

    As for Minaj, she’s a celebrity and can say whatever comes into her head for clicks, especially when it concerns her boyfriend’s sexual function or dysfunction. She also says:

    Minaj said in a separate tweet that she had not been able to complete enough research of her own on the COVID-19 vaccines to get one in time for the Met Gala, a star-studded fundraiser for New York’s Metropolitan Museum of Art.

    Later, Minaj added that she will get vaccinated to be able to tour.

    My view is that even at my advanced age, I personally notice and care about the state of my testicles (“No news is good news”). My intuitive sense is that a very large number of men do the same. In other words, if this were a real issue, we would have heard about it long before now, especially because no tests are required. This is even more true, given that liberals are not the only political faction given to fomenting moral panics or motivated reasoning.

    As far as erectile dysfunction, I will refrain from n=1 testimony, but this idea is persuasive at the narrative level because of all the other weird vascular stuff Covid does. My impression, however, is that erectile dysfunction has many overlapping causes, which could include being cooped up at home, pandemic stress, etc. This is something that would, I think, take a real RCT to sort out.

     
    1. IM Doc

      I am just saying that we should not just discount the story out of hand. If real – it is very very rare.

      Unfortunately – VAERS is the only system we have to monitor vaccine complications. There is another called CISA – but that is just about the same level of problems.

      But remember – we were promised over and over again early on in the vaccination program with the EUA that side effects and problems would be vigorously monitored. This system is what is in place to cover those promises.

      VAERS and CISA is what we have. I am certain that the FDA very likely has other ways they are monitoring complications – but that is not open to community physicians like myself. This is all we have.

      And yes – the testicular issue is very rare – 12 out of millions (even if the 12 is not really 12 but 6) is very rare – but it is there – and as I stated I can tell that some of those reports are put in by physicians. I give those absolute credence.

      I have had to look things up on VAERS multiple times this year to see if some strange thing happening to a patient was unique or if there were others, and the N was 3 or 4. Fortunately, the vast majority of my patients did not have any significant problems – and these things resolved. But it can give great comfort to people to know that yes – this has at least been reported.

      This is our horribly broken system – and it is what we in clinical medicine are forced to use. That is the way it is.

       

Andrew Watts

RE: What the Never Trumpers Want Now. It’s clear that Frum is completely delusional, and so he and his will fit in very well with the liberal Democrats.

Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad. -Euripides

 
  1. IM Doc

    I have always found the antecedent quotation from Sophocles to be a much more appropriate comment on our time ——

    “τὸ κακὸν δοκεῖν ποτ᾽ ἐσθλὸν τῷδ᾽ ἔμμεν’ ὅτῳ φρένας θεὸς ἄγει πρὸς ἄταν”

    The IM Doc translation – “Evil appears as good in the minds of those whom the gods will soon lead to destruction”

    This is found in Sophocles – ANTIGONE – Lines 620-621

    For the purists – I did the best I can on the Greek letters.

IM Doc

I was just in the hospital’s doctor’s lounge in between patients when the FDA vote on the boosters came down 16-2 AGAINST.

As is usual, the physician’s lounge television was tuned to CNBC at that very moment. That is how I found the news.

Amazingly, they had Dr. Fauci on almost immediately.

What a perfect encapsulation of the whole situation. The nation’s medical ( scientific ) head of the COVID response, is on CNBC – a FINANCIAL channel to let the world know his thoughts in between breathless takes on plunging Pfizer and Moderna stock prices. I cannot think of a more befitting example of all that is going wrong.

 
  1. Kengferno

    re: booster shots. I haven’t seen any info that indicates that they are any different from the original vaccines. That they are basically the same thing and the booster shot just refreshes the original vaccine as it declines in efficacy. Is that correct?

     

    1.  
      1. Zachary Smith

        Might the effect be better if a person who was originally inoculated with Pfizer to receive a Moderna booster?

        From my (uninformed) point of view, the mix-and-match strategy makes lots of sense, especially if the same-brand boosters are just more of the same.

        What do we know about the Novavax vaccine? – Expert Q&A

        “The Novavax COVID-19 vaccine (NVX-CoV2372) is a protein-based vaccine. Protein-based vaccines have a good safety and efficacy track record and are used in adults and children to prevent diseases such as hepatitis B, pertussis, influenza, pneumococcal illness and meningitis. They are typically given together with an adjuvant to boost the immune response and ensure both humoral (antibody) and cellular (T cells) responses. The Novavax vaccine is made from multiple copies of the SARS CoV-2 spike protein, formed into tiny particles (nanoparticles) and then mixed together with an adjuvant derived from tree bark. It is given as an intramuscular jab like other COVID-19 vaccines, with two doses given three weeks apart. After injection, the nanoparticles are taken up antigen presenting cells, which then display the spike proteins on their surface and stimulate the immune system to make antibodies and cellular responses.”

        I’m going to be paying a lot of attention to this one.

         
  2. IM Doc

    This has been becoming more and more obvious over the past few weeks. It may indeed be directly responsible for the terrible numbers coming from Israel – where the relative risk reduction for the vaccine (They pretty much only used Pfizer) is now down to 16%. And cases after large swaths have received the 3rd booster are now going parabolic. Once an RRR is below the 25% level – we begin to approach the level of worthless.

    https://news.yahoo.com/big-gap-between-pfizer-moderna-034719881.html

    I have been carefully counting the exact vaccination information on every single one of the breakthrough cases I have been seeing ( assuming if they actually know).

    I work in an area that was predominantly Moderna for the first several months because that was all we had.

    It has been interesting to note that since August 1st, precisely 72.7% of the breakthroughs have been vaccinated with Pfizer. (Remember the large predominance of Moderna in my area – making the number all the more striking). All but 2 of the vaccinated admissions that I have had since August 1st have been with Pfizer.

    Fascinating.

    Either the dosing schedule, the dosing amount or something about the freezing/delivery is causing them to fail more rapidly. Or it could be something with the actual biochemical mechanics of the vaccine itself. Above my pay grade.

    However – this has been a topic of conversation for weeks among colleagues both local and far away. Being noticed everywhere. Not that the news media would say a word for months – somehow the flood gates are being opened right now.

    FYI – the discussion in the past few weeks at the FDA to only booster the Pfizer patients was most decidedly NOT because Moderna and J&J were tardy with the paperwork and Pfizer got theirs done first as multiple media stories put forth. Tardy paperwork for a multi billion dollar pharmaceutical my ass. Use your brains.

IM Doc

Houston, we have a problem. (Actually a misquote – but close enough).

Said during an event from my childhood. When a major American scientific and technical achievement was having severe problems. Integrity, honesty, courage and ingenuity saved the day during that crisis. We are about to find out if this country still has it or not. We will see.

I got home from work last night – and watched about 3 hours of the FDA meeting video from yesterday. I have the benefit of being a physician and I possess the learned ability to cut right through the bull shit and recognize at least partially what is going on.

The Pfizer part was the standard issue “drug rep” bullshit I have come to be so accustomed to all my life. All talk no substance. Lots of manipulation of data. Lots of threads that make no sense with the statistics at hand.

The real concern for me was when the safety experts began to talk. I must admit that rage filled my heart. All these months of “perfectly safe, perfectly effective” really took a hit. I will put it like this.. These experts were saying things about the safety issues with these vaccines that would have had them censored instantly from Twitter, Facebook or YouTube. I am surprised that YouTube has left the video up. MC Escher could really have a field day with the hole these tech companies have dug for themselves.

It clearly has gotten the attention of many of my medical colleagues as well. We are going to see how this all plays out.

I guess I have little faith in our current establishment. After all, these Pfizer problems have been somewhat known for months. I have been hearing things for quite a while. AND YET – that is the vaccine the FDA gave full approval to. I honestly do not know if there is anyone left with the integrity to stamp out all the corruption.

Sorry guys, rant off. I do feel some vindication after watching that – that all these safety issues I have been seeing may have some substance. I just do not know where we go from there. It seems to me the die has been cast and the American people are entrenched on all sides.

This is exactly the worry public health officials for generations have had when we combine medicine with politics.


ChetG

What one didn’t have in the 60s and 70s but which one has today is fast-food restaurants everywhere. That has to make a difference, and since they’re popular, the weight climb is, to my mind, understandable.

I can give one other example: Since the start of the pandemic, I’ve lost about 15 pounds. The difference? My wife and I stopped eating at local restaurants (good food but perhaps large portions). In the end, I think eating less will make the largest difference.

 
  1. IM Doc

    Not only did they not have fast food restaurants everywhere in the 60s and 70s – but the big offender in the problem is sugared drinks.

    When I was a kid in the 1960s/1970s – the small drinks at fast food places were about the same size as a shot glass. The LARGE drinks back then were SMALLER than the small drinks are now. The large drinks now are actually often appearing to be 1 liter or more.

    That kind of liquid processed carb is absolutely hellacious – and millions of Americans do this to themselves daily.

Carla

Re: Actual Healthcare, as in Expanded, Improved Medicare for All:

Last night, I attended a webinar Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP) held on Direct Contracting Entities, which are posing an immediate threat to traditional Medicare, completely privatizing it and putting it entirely under the control of Wall Street. There is plenty of information about DCE’s available at the PNHP site. I urge my compatriots here, particularly physicians, but health care advocates (which is all of us, right?) as well — to please consider signing and sharing the petition linked below.

https://pnhp.salsalabs.org/DCEpetitionSeptember2021/index.html?eType=EmailConfirmation&eId=2a6c743b-1860-4199-bd8b-fe67420c752f

 
  1. IM Doc

    Thank you very much for this link.

    If people only knew the almost weekly tragedies I get to deal with because of Medicare Advantage Plans – it would get some attention. Somehow these stories are never told.

    This Direct Contracting Entities would be the next step in the ultimate dissolution of Medicare and handing it over to “non-profit” entities. Look around you right now at the staffing crisis in the hospitals in this country as just one small example as to where this will all lead.

    I can only hope these kinds of ideas will fail.

  1.  
  2. IM Doc

    At my small rural hospital –

    I would say basically the mass exodus of employees has already happened long before anyone dreamed of vaccine mandates.

    Nurses are just plain burned out – and have left – we have gone from 40 or so a year ago – down to 16 now. The nursing home attendants have left in droves – the 20 dollars an hour offered – cannot compare to the 25 dollars an hour at the Dairy Queen.

    There is also a large contingent of remaining nurses – who literally REFUSE to take care of the unvaccinated patients – causing massive logistic headaches for the managers. I find that approach to be reprehensible. Did any nurse when I was young get the privilege of refusing to take care of an AIDS patient? Did any of my fellow interns? ABSOLUTELY NOT – would have been considered immoral.

    The ranks of the CNA and orderlies is so dwindled that I am reliving my intern year – and taking patients back and forth from radiology myself .

    I would say that the cratering of the employees was going on long before the vaccine mandates occurred. A loss of 1 employee now would be critical. I am guessing things may be similar for the examples you provided. I am hearing from colleagues this is going on everywhere. My hospital actually has it good compared to others in other places.

    I will put it to you like this – our current hospital load – COVID and others – is absolutely crushing because of the staffing deficiency. However – this amount of patients would have been a breeze last year during the last crash.

    Somehow – none of this is even remotely conveyed in the news stories.

     
  1. Terry Flynn

    Health care falling male life expectancy etc. Cancer treatment has effectively collapsed in Nottingham UK.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-cancer-chemotherapy-delay-nottingham-b1925484.html

    Those who receive chemo to make palliative care less unbearable (palliative chemo) are receiving letters saying “that’s it bubye”. I would say more if I could but I can’t. All hell has broken loose. I’d say more if I could but suffice to say a 10 year waiting list means “don’t get cancer in East Midlands – you’ll be dead before proper diagnosis”. The cull has begun.

     
    1. petal

      Terry, I can’t say more, but was informed yesterday by a friend in the know that chemotherapy is being rationed. Between that and other supply issues(needles, syringes, etc), they said don’t get sick. This person is expecting a bad winter. My mother also cannot get sulfasalazine anymore due to a shortage. They now instead want to put her on something that has bad side effects and she’s had a bad experience with previously. Good times.

       
        1. IM Doc

          FYI – I cannot speak for chemotherapy.

          However, we are having all kinds of issues with the supply of the multitude of immunologic medications for autoimmune disorders. Humira and Embrel are available but many of the others not so much. We are doing all kinds of changes on these patients.

          Since many of our modern chemotherapy drugs are similar to these medications, I am assuming there may be shortages of them as well.

          I was told by the pharmacist in the hospital that the issue is many of the manufacturing companies have been tasked with making monoclonal antibodies for COVID – and it has affected the ability to process all these others in a normal time frame.

          It has also been an interesting year – in that every single COVID medication in the hospital – IV steroids, remdesevir, and multiple abx for secondary infections have been on back order this year at times for weeks. And now even the monoclonal antibodies are being rationed. This is very very peculiar in American medicine. We have shortages of this and that before – but nothing like this past year. Eye-opening.

In reply to a comment about off-label uses for medications (also, sorry the indent-formatting got lost about here):

IM Doc

Viagra was initially going to be a blood pressure medication.

The backbone chemical structure of all the SSRIs was originally created to be used as a coloring agent for paint and shellac.

Gabapentin was originally a seizure medication.

One of the components of Bactrim – now a common antibiotic – was originally an anti-parasitic.

Some of the common older diabetic medications were originally modeled for chemotherapy.

Even ivermectin is now used by not a few urologists for a very difficult urinary problem called interstitial cystitis.

Shall I go on?

The history of Pharma products is replete with chemicals that actually worked better for other indications than their original intention. Many of these were not found out until the drug was released and then subsequently experimented with by physicians for other uses. Much of these discoveries were total serendipity.


Lee

“I hate videos as a medium for conveying information but this is worth your time.”

I hate to begin my day by differing with she who so impressively and graciously runs things at this site but as both an avid reader and a fan of video, I must rise in defense of the latter medium, and offer as an example an 18 minute recent interview with an ICU nurse working at a hospital in Tennessee that is currently being overwhelmed by Covid patients. The type of information provided by this young woman’s observable demeanor would be difficult, perhaps impossible to convey by symbols on a page. After all, anatomically modern humans’ ability to communicate viscerally through voice and gesture precedes literacy by tens of thousands of years.
 

IM Doc

Incredible video –

All I can say – I have been doing this for 30 years.
I have never seen nurses and other staff leaving in droves like is happening now. Not even close. All over the country. I have never seen MDs and DOs retiring and leaving practice like they are now. Just in the past 6 months, 5 of my graduating residency class have hung it up. 3 were Critical Care docs, 2 were hospitalists. I do not find that to be a coincidence.

Since my earliest days as an intern, I have had a real soft spot for nurses, CNAs, and RTs. They have repeatedly over the years saved my ass so many times I cannot count. To see them put in the position they are today is absolutely heart-wrenching. All the time I have them coming up to me and just erupt into tears.

I do not believe the American people truly understand how close we are to the event horizon of totally unraveling our health care system. It is that bad. I really fear if this situation goes pear-shaped this fall and winter.

I feel like the wrath of the whole country is on me every day. I and my staff never know when someone will go off. I never know how many times I am going back to the hospital when my waiting room is packed. People are angry and at times very out of control. I am very very tired of having to pick up after the constant miscommunication disasters of our federal health officials. People have every right to be very angry.

This week’s shit show – trying to explain the federal health officials’ guidance on who gets the Pfizer boosters. The FDA and the CDC are saying two completely different things. It is literally – “who are you going to believe – the FDA or the CDC?” ——. In 30 years – I have never been put into that position. Not once. Not in the darkest days of the AIDS crisis was there this much confusion. I literally have to do the very best I can do – and hope that all the years of training are solid guidance in the chaos.

Never in my wildest dreams.

bassmule

A few items from a New Yorker interview with Céline Gounder, an epidemiologist and infectious-disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital and on the faculty of N.Y.U.’s Grossman School of Medicine, and was a member of the Biden-Harris transition team’s COVID-19 advisory board:

What we’ve also seen, and this is typical of any vaccine, is that right after vaccination you get a big surge in antibody levels up front. But that’s not the only part of your immune system that kicks in; your immune system is forming a memory response, through memory cells. And so the antibodies may drift back down over time, but your memory cells are still there. Then, if you’re reëxposed to an infection, your memory cells kick into gear, and you get another surge of antibodies. The issue is that it takes three to five days or so for your immune cells to start revving up to make antibodies, and in that time the virus can still infect you and replicate—the incubation period with the Delta variant, for example, is about four to five days. Your immune system nips it in the bud before you get really sick, but you could still end up with a breakthrough infection.

“That’s really how most vaccines work. They’re not preventing all infections—that’s what we call “sterilizing immunity,” and that’s actually quite rare. What most vaccines do is prevent the infection from taking off and making you sick. One of the problems with this whole debate around boosters is that people have had very unrealistic expectations of what vaccines can or can’t do. They think that seeing breakthrough infections is a failure of the vaccines, when it’s actually quite predictable and normal.”

If you have already been fully vaccinated, there are diminishing returns on what that extra dose of vaccine will do to protect you, versus what it will do if it’s in the arm of somebody else in your community. You have to think about risk in terms of your risk reduction through vaccination, multiplied by the risk in the community. You as an individual will stand to benefit most by reducing risk in the community, if you’ve already been fully vaccinated. And the best way to do that is to vaccinate people who are not yet vaccinated.

And it is still a scarce supply, you know—not just in the United States, but around the world. Less than four per cent of people in Africa have been vaccinated, and that’s going to be the incubator for new variants, which will threaten our pandemic recovery. This is not humanitarian. This is not about generosity. This is pretty much about self-interest: if you are actually interested in getting on the other side of this, you have to start paying attention to people who are not vaccinated—not just here but in the rest of the world.

What COVID Booster Shots Can and Can’t Do

IM Doc

I would have to do some research – but I honestly do not believe any of the other available vaccines has this high of a breakthrough rate. The flu vaccines are non-sterilizing – but I have never known them to have the kind of breakthrough cases we are seeing now.

The author of this piece really must go and look at all the articles from our media, politicians, and medical leaders from earlier this year. She really does have her head up her ass. The fact that you “could not get infected” was being screamed from the rooftops for months all the while with the ubiquitous 95% , and 97% claims. I am looking at my vaccine consent form right now. It clearly states that my experimental vaccine will prevent COVID infection.

There were those of us with our hair on fire trying to get our colleagues to realize these vaccines were being severely oversold. Our efforts went nowhere. I became more and more concerned the more I heard my patients and their supreme confidence that they were done with COVID after the vaccine. Just look at the writing of many of our very brightest journalists – Andrew Sullivan for example. He wrote several pieces in the spring celebrating the fact that COVID would be over by JUNE. Where did he get that idea, I wonder?

Writing such an article at this stage of the game is really a “Lucy grabbing the football” trick.

This is my concern – If these people are not careful, the anti-vaxx movement which is now a fringe has the possibility of becoming mainstream. And that could be generational. They just simply do not get it. And they do not understand that articles like this do so much more damage to their credibility.

 

 


jr

” On average, breakthrough infections seem to be briefer, milder, and less contagious. Among the fully immunized, catching the coronavirus doesn’t mean the same thing it did last year. “It’s a very different kind of infection than in people who are immunologically naive,” Lindsey Baden, an infectious-disease physician and COVID-19 vaccine researcher at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, told me.”

Which coronavirus is Lindsey referring to? Aren’t there different flavors? Isn’t Mu already ignoring the vaccines? Lambda seems recalcitrant as well. Tell me I’m wrong!

Oh wait, it doesn’t matter, my vaccination has expired anyway…

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/post-vaccination-covid/620140/

IM Doc

 

I have dozens of patients who would be very happy to compare notes with Dr. Baden.

I am wondering what they would think of having their cases described as being mild.

I am not sure these people like Dr. Baden are actually taking care of patients.

The vaccinated do seem to MOSTLY avoid critical outcomes. But oh do they ever get sick. Just as sick as all other patients this past 18 months.


Vaccine-Only Mandates as a Manifestation of the Bizarre Civil War-Stoking Impulses of the Professional-Managerial Class in the US

Never in my worst nightmares did I imagine I would ever want Bernanke and Geithner back in charge. Yes, vast swathes of the public at least dimly recognized that the financial crisis bailouts were designed to preserve the banking system at their expense. Yes, no executives went to jail or even had their feathers ruffled. Yes, the Fed, the Treasury, and central bankers all over the world refused to believe that the derivatives-leveraged debt bomb was aimed at the heart of the financial system, even though they had warning in the form of three acute phases before the big Lehman-triggered blow up.

But compared to the clown show we have managing the Covid crisis, the Fed-Treasury team was a paragon of managerial virtue. There is every reason to loathe their banking system friendly, cognitively captured priorities, backed by Obama’s fundamental conservatism and personal reluctance to cross anyone in the clubs he’d just joined. But they were bloody well competent at pursuing those bad objectives.

By contrast, most readers are all too familiar with the sorry conduct of public health establishment in the US over the course of the Covid crisis, from the initial denial of the possibility that it could become a pandemic,1 to advising against masks, to ending lockdowns too early, to imposing too few restrictions on international air travel, to refusal to impose quarantines with teeth, to the premature May “Mission Accomplished, take off your masks” pronouncement.

Today, we’ll discuss the vaccine mandates as a perverse example of the “othering” that has become a prominent and not-productive element of the official response to Covid. It as if this focus designed to serve the emotional needs of those in charge, in particular reaffirm their claim to authority and assertion of special privileges, rather than prevent death and suffering. And the “others” are responding in kind to the open hostility, starting with Biden saying he’s lost patience with the unvaccinated.

Vaccinations Alone Insufficient to Combat Delta….

A Covid strategy that relied pretty much exclusively on vaccinations could conceivably have worked with the original “wild type’ or “Wuhan” variant, where experts estimated that a ~65% vaccination level would reduce the replication rate to less than one, so the pathogen would fizzle out. There might still be outbreaks in low-vaccination areas, but Covid would be reduced to an intermittent, low-level problem.

But with Delta being far more contagious, or as the experts would say, having a higher unmitigated R0, it would take a correspondingly much higher level of vaccination to lower the R0 to below one, with most experts pegging it at 85% if not higher.

Getting to 85% would be daunting when you factor in not merely vaccine resistance/hesitancy and legitimate economic reasons to avoid vaccination (the risk of miss a day or two or work due to a routine reaction leading to a catastrophic economic downspiral) but also the fact that being vaccinated or getting Covid confers less than a year of immunity. The best guesstimates seem to be eight months for Moderna and contracting Covid, and close to that long for J&J, versus five to six months at best for Pfizer.3

Despite efforts to impugn data out of Israel showing declining efficacy of Pfizer vaccine4, confirmed by a large-scale study out of Mayo, it appears that the current vaccines do very little to reduce contagiousness. The CDC study of the Provincetown outbreak found similar nasal viral loads among the vaccinated and unvaccinated; other studies tried to claim the vaccines still reduced Delta propagation. To the extent it does, it ain’t much, on the order of 2.0

Moreover, waning vaccine effectiveness among the vaccinated translates into not merely more breakthrough cases, but also an increasing number of those with breakthrough cases winding up mighty sick. And all those cheery claims that virtually all of those hospitalized for Covid are unvaccinated is composed from anecdata since that information does not exist on a national level. From IM Doc:

I was informed today by the Health Dept that they have absolutely zero way of tracking correctly vaccinated cases. In that they do not have the ability to retrospectively find out which vaccination the person has had. So there is no way the CDC will be having this kind of detail, unless other states are doing this.

Readers have said California and some other states do have proper vaccination tracking systems, but in aggregate, they represent a minority of the population.

The reason we suspect the official-sounding anecdata is we are hearing from readers and medically-connected sources of specific instances of fully vaccinated individuals winding up in the hospital with Covid and some dying. IM Doc has even sent obits of medical professionals he knew who died of Covid, fully vaccinated, with no mention in the text, while the press makes relishes reporting on Covid deaths of the unvaccinated. Even though there is every reason to believe that deaths and hospitalizations are still significantly skewed towards the unvaccinated, the press hyping by how much is undermining confidence among the fence-sitters.

You might say, “But the booster program is starting! The virtuous vaccine-takers will be protected.” Um, not to the degree you’d like to think. Even for Moderna, the most effective vaccine against Delta, the neutralizing antibodies generated against B.1.351 by a third shot were only 40% of the level of the earlier jabs agains the wild type, per Moderna’s own research. Yet the booster program is now focused on Pfizer, the least effective vaccine against Delta. There’s a reason Israel is now talking about fourth booster shots.

You might say, “Well, the drug companies will soon have a booster that targets Delta.” Notice that they are instead offering boosters that are the same as the original shot, as in is designed to combat the Wuhan variant. The lack of any apparent plan to develop Delta or other variant-specific shots does not appear to be due to development or approval delays, but instead the span of variants. As GM explained:

It has been noted for some time that the mutations in Delta/B.1.617.2, on one hand, and B.1.351/Beta and P.1/Gamma, on the other, are orthogonal to each other. And there have been other mutational paths too, but those did not rise to significant prominence.

Which is essentially evolution into distinct serotypes, and is one big reason why we are still injecting the original Wuhan strain vaccine into the arms of people instead of a variant-specific one — the antigenic distance between the Wuhan strain and each of these variants is lower than the antigenic distance between some of them, thus the original vaccine gives the best breadth of coverage.2

Tellingly, even without necessarily having plumbed these or similar details, the media has started to abandon vaccine cheerleading. Notice the start of the segment, the host is clearly frustrated with the lack of sufficient vaccine success and probes Scott Gottlieb about therapeutics as a possible remedy:

And mind you, we haven’t even mentioned the elephant in the room, that of children as a contagion vector. The regular very large-scale tests by Imperial College established in 2020 that elementary school kids are twice as likely as adults to bring Covid into a household as adults, and older children, seven times as likely. Yet children have been omitted from the Covid computation until they started getting visibly sick with Delta and some dying.

And despite the full court press for adolescent vaccinations and enthusiasm for childhood jabs, it’s extremely unlikely that the uptake would get within hailing distance of adult levels. IM Doc lives in a very blue pocket in flyover. A report from early August:

We were at the parent meeting for the new school year this week. An informal vote was taken about this issue so the parents’s feeling could be gaged. There were 114 kids whose parents were there. The vote was 112-2. 112 kids will not be vaccinated.

What started off as an informational meeting turned into a screaming match between about 10-15 parents and the principal/school board. Massive standing ovations when these parents were stating that they will pull their kids and home school them before they would consent for them to be vaccinated.

And perhaps more relevant, with his area having a Covid upsurge, despite an 80% vaccination level in his county, to the degree that the National Guard are in his hospital, the local schools have contained infection among children:

Front page news story today – One of the largest school districts in the state – XXXX – now has almost 500 kids out in quarantine.

Schools up and down the mountain ranges in Montana are having similar issues.

All kinds of parents freaked out about masks and refusing to have their kids wear them, etc.

And yet in my kids’ district, a few here and there with COVID – and then appropriate measures taken.

A heavy community spirit.

All kids and teachers wearing masks. No communal cafeteria. We were asked last week to pack 2 lunches for each kid because they are trying to keep kids in their classroooms for lunches – and wanting no kids to have to eat cafeteria food. So some of the parents are sending 2 lunches with each kid to cover the other kids whose parents cannot afford (or whatever) to bring food. All windows in the class wide open with fans blowing. And they had installed fan filters in each room for when the winter comes. If a kid even has sniffles – they are called to be home – and for 7 days. No exceptions even if they are negative. The cold weather will start here very soon – will see how this all goes then.

We will skip over children for the rest of this discussion, but bear in mind that they create even more problems for viability of the Biden Administration vaccine-fixated response.

….Yet Biden Administration Doubles Down on Vaccines and Resorts to Coercion

Yet with that sorry fact set, here is where we are: With an 80% vaccine effectiveness against serious disease, a lot less than that against infection, the US is effectively doing the same as allowing 20% of people to be infected without any vaccine even if we vaccinated everyone, and it is a lot worse than that if we are far from that target.

And the official response is even worse. The vaccinated were told they could abandon precautions like masking, distancing, avoiding going to restaurants and bars. Due to the summer upsurge, the CDC has tried partially walking this hare-brained May guidance back and now recommends that the vaccinated mask up indoors. But the damage has been done. I see very little masking save at venues that require it, and readers across the US report report broadly similar behavior.

Rather than try to get the public to again adopt low-cost protective behaviors like masking, with soft measures like jawboning the major broadcasters to have all their on camera reporters wear mask, the Biden Administration instead is doubling down on its failed strategy of shaming by escalating and adding coercion into the mix, via vaccine mandates.

Remember, we can see that name-calling the unvaxxed has not worked well in the US data. We were early to start vaccinating the public and have had adequate supplies, yet as Lambert points out in Water Cooler, our vaccination levels are unimpressive by world standards.

As much as I don’t like the punitive glee too often visible in the discussion of the vaccine mandates, what is disconcerting is the strong-form of “vaccine only,” as opposed to the original formulation of “get the vaccine or get tested weekly.” Ahem, given breakthrough infections, why is regular (free) testing made into a punishment and not an incentive? If I could get weekly free testing at my workplace, I’d be all for it. And given the discussion of why vaccines alone are insufficient to tackle Covid, frequent testing would speed identification and isolation of the infected5.

And the reason the doubling down on a failed vaccination strategy via coercive mandates isn’t that the absolute levels of refusals will be all that high, but that they are almost certain to hit the already staff-starved hospitals, who have had a steady bleed of personnel due to burnout and reluctance to take even more exposure to Covid under Delta. Hospitals simply can’t afford to lose more staff. As we have pointed out, despite this recent Covid wave being less deadly than its predecessors, hospitals in many locations are closer to breakdown due to staff attrition.

It is touching to see Rochelle Walensky so concerned about the impact of mandate-triggered departures on already-strained hospitals. From The Hill:

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky on Monday said she backed vaccine mandates for health care workers, but admitted that resulting staff shortages could present a challenge.

We’ve pointed out that a big group that is reluctant to get vaccinated is reproduction-aged women, who’ve heard, often from women they know personally, reports of whacked-out menstrual periods, including cases of their cessation. The CDC has refused to take this seriously and is late to look into the issue. The lack of investigation allows these worries to fester and grow.

New York City is at risk. From New York hospitals brace for mass staff shortages as vaccine deadline looms:

Maxine Carrington, the personnel chief for Northwell Health, said she has had personal conversations with each staff member who is not vaccinated in order to try to increase vaccinations. “I’ve had personal conversations with team members, and I was asked by one: ‘Are you really going to fire us on the 27th?’ And I said, ‘let’s put that aside for a minute and let’s talk about saving your life. Why don’t you want to get vaccinated?’” Carrington said

Mind you, these hospital workers are regularly the antithesis of Southern-state Bubbas, but you’d never know that from the likes of the New York Times. Morning Newsletter, which ran a story today on how only 60% of Republicans had gotten one jab versus 86% of Democrats (hhm, poor follow through in both groups, Lambert’s Water Cooler shows the national vax level at 55.3%) with the headline, Covid’s partisan pattern is growing more extreme, which a reader translated as “Time to put redneck whiteys in concentration camps.”

So how can narratives like these co-exist?

 

 

There are two factors that are missing in the computation of raw numbers. First is that the officialdom has incentives to minimize the impact of these policies. For starters, the chart above is about firings. It’s not hard to imagine that “retirements” are not counted.

Second is that most people who object, or were pushed over the edge by this requirement after all of the Covid stress, would resign before the deadline and find another job. Why burn bridges by being forced out? Particularly for low-level workers that are the backbones of hospitals, like CNAs, cleaners, and cooks, there are other jobs in this staff-short economy for workers who aren’t very highly paid. CNA pay is appalling and they’d be likely to find new work quickly.

There are signs of resistance among other modestly-paid workers; whether they’ll follow through and work only for vaccine-tolerant employers remains to be seen. From Detroit’s ABC station:

“I’ve met a lot of resistance, I’ve had two people get quite angry with me to be honest with you,” said Gail Smith, staffing manager at Snelling Staffing Services in Roseville.

Smith said some of her employers are now requiring the vaccine, and applicants are not happy.

“It’s been 100 percent of the candidates I’ve spoken with. Nobody has said, ‘sure no problem,’ they all had hesitations,” she said.

Many of those interviews were for custodial positions in hospital or school settings, where vaccines have been required. But now, since the majority of the agency’s clients have more than 100 employees, Smith expects to face that pushback more often….

“They’re getting really uncomfortable. They don’t want to miss out on the job, but they’re torn. They’re very torn,” said Smith.

Again, most of these applicants are likely to fall into line, but note that the open positions include those for hospitals and schools, which are already short-handed.

Brunches with Cats pointed out in comments that other strategically-placed workers, like transport workers, weren’t keen about mandatory vaccinations and enough in her state of Washington (which has a vaccine-only mandate) are already resigning so as to affect service levels. As she observed:

Yep. Inslee and staff don’t believe that state employees threatening to quit over his mandate will actually do it. We’ll find out shortly, as they have to have both shots (or one J&J) by Oct. 4 to be “fully vaccinated” by Oct. 18 or be fired.

Whether or not it’s for political points, it could backfire big time if personnel shortages cause cutbacks in public services. It’s already happening within the ferry system, in part due to workers out sick with the virus, but there have been rumors that some are calling in sick in protest or refusing to accept overtime to cover for sick coworkers. As a result, many sailings are being cancelled, leaving passengers stranded on the dock for hours.

State troopers also are in an uproar over a reported blanket refusal to grant religious exemptions within the division, on the grounds that there’s no way to accommodate them. The gov’s proclamation includes the legally required exemptions for medical or religious reasons, but even if granted, they have to pass the “reasonable accommodations” test.

Because they’re truly delusional, they’re requiring employees to register with a third-party vaccination verification program, which means signing an odious 50-page EULA before sending personal and medical data off to the Microsoft cloud. According to one of my ferry contacts, union reps responded to their concerns by saying they had been “addressed” with management, period, and BTW could they help out HR by uploading their documentation by the end of this week.

The regular abuse by anti-vax parents of school vaccine requirements by getting cooperative doctors to send in notes claiming that Johnny can’t be vaccinated is now making it difficult for the few who work for employers like United that have implemented a strong-form vaccine mandate do have bona fide health issues to request an accommodation via weekly testing.6 The law firm representing six United employees as part of a class action suit succeeded in obtaining a temporary restraining order. Most anti-vax suits are terribly drafted so I don’t anticipate that many of the legal challenges to the vaccine mandates will prevail in the end. However, United’s position that six years of unpaid leave amount to a reasonable accommodation for plaintiffs who have (potentially bona fide) medical reasons not to take the vaccine seems like a stretch.7

And even though the press reports that vaccination rates among blacks and Hispanics are rising, there are doctors who object to mandating the vaccines.

But there is one cohort that does fit the “Bubba hatred” stereotype, and that is some hard-core evangelical sects in flyover. However, at least for the one described below, their opposition is not to vaccines; many have taken them and the unvaccinated among them would be amenable to “doing your patriotic duty” exhortations….which are utterly in absence as far as Team Biden is concerned.

From a regular reader immediately after the Biden Administration extended its vaccine mandate from Federal employees to private businesses with more than 100 workers in early September:

This is very serious – I think these Biden people have no idea what they are about to unleash. They have seriously underestimated how common these feelings are in large swaths of this country. Places that grow the food and drill the oil. They have underestimated how many minorities feel the same way. .

Their worst prophetic nightmares are coming true daily before their eyes. They have been told these days were coming all their life and have been steeling themselves for it. They are not anti-vax in any way shape or form. This passport, get fired, lose your life and livelihood is the Rubicon to them – and as of today it has officially been crossed.

An-email from a close relative’s religious leader:

Effective today, the government of the United States of America has cast its lot completely and totally with the evildoers. There is now no going back. The lot has fallen. They come after our jobs and livelihood now. Tomorrow, will come the passports and the Mark of the Beast. It is on the way. We are a fallen and deluded country. We are deceived. God will not be mocked.

None of the chosen will take the Mark in any way shape or form. To do so would lead to hellfire for eternity.

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, war has been declared today. We must fight the Evil. We must fight the Beast until the day of the Glory of the Lord. We must begin to look after one another. We must fight the use of the Mark in our affairs. If we do not fight with all our hearts, souls, and minds before the coming of the Glorious Day, all will be lost.

We will all be getting down on our knees tonight at 7PM. We will need to get ourselves spiritually prepared. They have declared war on us today. We will respond in kind until the day that He arrives to take us up into the clouds.

Needless to say, this is the sort of development that the mainstream media is not keen to report. And in fairness, neither they nor I have a ready way of determining how many believers have reacted this way. How significant this response turns out to be will be largely a function not of their numbers, since they are clearly a minority, but whether they are strategically placed via their employment. But the US is already up to its eyeballs in supply chain disruption, so even if evangelical opposition added to this picture in a serious way, it would be hard enough to parse out so as to facilitate it being minimized.

By contrast, some white collar workers are being handled with care. The Verge reported that Apple is implementing a mandate-lite, requiring regularly testing of unvaccinated employees but not pressing them to take the jab.

In other words, the harder you look at it, the more difficult it is to find any logic for vaccine coercion without a parallel hard push for non-pharmaceutical interventions. Is it desperation and denialism? Blind belief in their own authority and self-perceived moral superiority? Sheer laziness, because a multi-pronged approach would be hard?

I can’t fathom it save perhaps deep-seated cynicism in action. The best-informed recognize the US lacks the will and the institutional capacity to manage the pandemic, and so the vaccine mandate is just another Pharma-enriching approach that also pre-positions the blame cannons squarely at Bubba. In reality, the adopted a “let-er-rip” strategy and the vaccines are at best an effort to protect the health care system…but they aren’t succeeding at that either under Delta.

It’s already obvious that the results will not be good unless the officialdom gets lucky and Covid evolves into a more contagious yet wimpier variant. And so far, the gods have not been kind.

____

1 Contrast with Nassim Nicholas Taleb’s January 26, 2020 warning.

2 Continuing from the same e-mail from GM:

But how big is the antigenic distance exactly?

Here is a new preprint:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.14.21263564v1

They also had a strain isolated from an HIV patient after 190 days of infection, which is a bit of a mix of P.1/Gamma and C.37/Lambda — R190K, K417T, D427Y, F490S, N501Y. That’s called “D190” in the preprint

Figure 2 shows the results for the neutralization reductions:

Baseline

— B.1.351/Beta on ancestral strain serum: 7.2x reduction
— B.1.617.2/Delta on ancestral strain serum: 2.0x reduction (in their assay it is low, others show it to be 5-6x; it varies a lot)
— D190 on ancestral strain serum: 8.8x reduction

Cross-strain:

— Delta on Beta serum: 12.4x reduction
— Beta on Delta serum: 33.6x reduction
— Delta on D190 serum: 27.1x reduction

A reduction of 33x means essentially no immunity — the protective threshold is less than 10 on that scale.

So it will be very interesting to see if some non-Delta serotype survives and rises in poorly vaccinated populations that have been swept by Delta.

C.1.2 in South Africa is a good candidate, maybe even B.1.621/Mu could have caused another wave in India if it got there in significant numbers and could establish itself before it goes extinct.

But long-term, unless the Delta advantage is unique to this particular structure and the fitness landscape turns out not to be flat but with a sharp peak, we will likely end up in a situation with multiple serotypes for which cross-immunity does not work.

3 Even these estimate may be generous in practice. Recall that we flagged official data from Israel in early July that showed that infection rates, even when stratified by age, were proportional when comparing the vaccinated to the unvaccinated. That meant that 5-6 months from when most Israelis were vaccinated, the vaccine (in Israel almost exclusively Pfizer) conferred no protection against contagion.

Other evidence of the vaccines offering only limited reduction in Delta spread. From GM:

Useful example of what happens in an contained population, in this case a prison

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7038e3.htm

80% vaccination, and relatively recent too — half were 4-6 months from second dose, the rest less than that — resulted in 70% attack rate among the vaccinated (and 93% in the unvaccinated)

Attack rates in the 4-6 months groups — 89%

Moderna held the best — 40% attack rate. Pfizer at 81%, but it’s not clear if those are matched by time from second dose.

4 Don’t even try Simpson’s Paradox. One of my very plugged in economist colleagues said as soon as Israel started publishing official data showing declining vaccine efficacy, Pfizer was all over them to try to get them to change it. They didn’t. And as GM said:

There were lot of people talking about Simpson’s paradox and how in Israel they did not properly age match, and how VE was not properly calculated. Israel has some of the most competent statisticians in the world, and they did in fact properly age match, but more importantly, whether we got the percentages right does not matter, what matters is whether hospitals are overrun with vaccinated patients. If they are, and they are, then the vaccine has been broken through to an extent that makes it a failure.

5. But oh, no, that isn’t necessarily happening either. Due to this post already going into the over-long territory, I have not tracked down the prevalence of another anti-public-health measure, that of requiring only the unvaxxed who have been exposed to a positive Covid case to isolate.

6 I fail to understand why school systems have been so chickenshit over vaccine evasion. Why didn’t they require anyone who sought a medical exemption to submit evidence from their health records to substantiate the claims? Oh, and threaten to pursue the suspension of licenses of MDs who had clearly fabricated? The AMA is pro-vaccine and they’d be keen to rout out anti-vax MDs. If that approach had been developed and de-bugged, it would not be hard to implement a similar scheme for Covid vaccines. But that horse left the barn a very long time ago.

7 The niceties of employee rights in this area are over my pay grade. However, generally speaking, it appears that employers normally don’t have offer many/any concessions are far as vaccinations are concerned. However, in this case, some flavors of the Federal mandate and most state and local implementations allow for frequent testing as an alternative, which could conceivably allow the plaintiffs to contend they are entitled to testing as an accommodation.


temporaryreality: (Default)
I'm putting all of October in one post because the first half of the month had fewer comments than in other two-week periods.

 Cuibono

Vaccination by region:

Coercion works? As exhortation, Biden’s speech had no impact at all.

IM Doc

A quick question about the vaccination graph above?

Does that graph represent total doses given or is it actually reflective of the hesitant unvaccinated being vaccinated?

The way I am reading it – it appears that it is total doses given.

Accordingly, I would not be betting so hard that the mandates/coercion are working to a great degree – the spikes may represent nothing more than large numbers of people getting their boosters. I wish there was a way to tell the difference.

In my neck of the woods – we have had large crowds showing up at the recently opened booster stations – and also large numbers of younger people walking off their jobs mandating vaccines and immediately being hired at places where they are not being mandated. In my community – we are now watching many of these companies mandating vaccinations begin to flail badly. It appears to me that outlets of the multi-national corporations are really having staffing problems in a big way – while the local small businesses with no mandates are having a much better time with their staff. Multiple fast food places are now open only 3-4 days a week for instance. I have no problem with this – it is has been the exact opposite for most of the last year. My family and I avoid multinational corporation retail and restaurants like the plague anyway.

Again – I am not sure what the vaccination graph is actually telling us — boosters or deplorables?

 
  1. Lambert Strether

    > Accordingly, I would not be betting so hard that the mandates/coercion are working to a great degree – the spikes may represent nothing more than large numbers of people getting their boosters. I wish there was a way to tell the difference.

    It is total doses. I’m not sure we have the data to distinguish deplorables from boosters, so good point. I will say there hasn’t been a whole lot of messaging on boosters, and on the company mandates we have a lot of anecdotes.

    Adding, I did put a question mark after “coercion works”. And you can be sure that’s how the powers that be will spin it, as in the FT’s editorial on “enlightened docility” yesterday.

     

“Covid-19 booster shots have outpaced the US rate of new vaccinations. And the millions still unvaccinated could trigger ‘future waves,’ expert warns” [CNN]. “[W]ith the number of Americans getting booster shots surpassing those who are initiating vaccination, experts warn more is needed to continue the progress…. An average of 384,963 booster vaccine doses are being given daily, while roughly 281,303 people are getting their first dose every day and about 292,927 people are becoming fully vaccinated each day, according to Wednesday’s CDC data.” • So IM Doc was, unsurprisingly, correct to draw attention to how mixed this data is. I looked at the CDC page with this data, and there’s no time element which is what I want. Perhaps I can use this tool, which allows different visualizations to be created. I wish there were a FRED for Covid data…

56.1% of the US is fully vaccinated (mediocre by world standards, being just below Czech Republic, and just above Saudi Arabia). We are back to the stately 0.1% rise per day. I would bet that the stately rise = word of mouth from actual cases. However, as readers point out, every day those vaccinated become less protected, especially the earliest. So we are trying to outrun the virus… (I have also not said, because it’s too obvious, that if by Bubba we mean The South, then Bubba has done pretty well.)

White House on vaccine requirements generally:

 

 

RE: Patient, Donor Denied Kidney Transplant Surgery Over Being Unvaccinated CBS. Good precedent. I assume this is but the first item on a developing checklist of what other conditions people can be denied care for, thereby strengthening the reach of Rule #2. Say, goutPerforated septum?

IM Doc

I will add a couple of things –

I am horrified by this decision. It is not surprising however. The entire transplant realm in medicine is manned by some of the worst of the narcissist jerks. In brief, it is not that they do not know how to use a moral compass, they do not even have one.

As a medical ethics professor for decades and one who has taken care of countless recipients of kidney transplants, the moral reasoning is just simply hogwash. Their main line of reasoning in this case is that she is going to be on immunocompromising meds, which are dangerous, and obviously she does not have the ability to “follow directions” in something simple like a vaccine. Furthermore, the meds may put her at risk for COVID ( although there are plenty of folks I know who are quite certain that the dreaded COVID storm may be mitigated by many of these transplant meds).

The entire framework of their whole argument will fall to the ground with a simple trip to a renal transplant ward in any academic center. I would say more than 2/3 of the patients are morbidly obese diabetics whose years of self-abuse have led to the transplant in the first place. It has also been my experience that the abuse continues on after the transplant with even more Cheetos and Ding Dongs. What I am trying to say is these transplant patients for the most part, have destroyed their own bodies BY THEIR OWN DECISIONS IN LIFE. And they have no regard going forward that they are destroying their new kidneys. But yet somehow things are different for a patient balking on a COVID vaccine? And the decisions made by these diabetics are not just as pertient?

This whole framework is unsustainable. I get headaches trying to follow the pretzel-reasoning these people are putting my profession through. Again – as I have said many times before – this is not going to end well for medicine.





antidlc

I would say more than 2/3 of the patients are morbidly obese diabetics whose years of self-abuse have led to the transplant in the first place. It has also been my experience that the abuse continues on after the transplant with even more Cheetos and Ding Dongs. What I am trying to say is these transplant patients for the most part, have destroyed their own bodies BY THEIR OWN DECISIONS IN LIFE. And they have no regard going forward that they are destroying their new kidneys.

How many of them eat unhealthy foods because they are depressed?

 
  1. IM Doc

    I admit that came out much harsher than I had intended.

    After reflection – I would add – that not only are these diabetic patients suffering from their own decisions – they are also suffering from the bad decisions of years of Big Ag that have destroyed these people with high fructose corn syrup and the like – while medicine and public health have turned their cheeks the other way.

Raymond Sim

“I admit that came out much harsher than I had intended.”

Lol, I hear that happens to people sometimes.

But it was informative for me. My first thought was “Omg, don’t let the neolibs know, they’ll cut everybody off.” But of course that would depend on who profits. Is treating renal failure lucrative for big healthcare?

 
  1. IM Doc

    The top 2 “profit centers” in medicine are cardiology and oncology.
    Renal disease/dialysis is #3 closely followed by GI at $4 (those colonoscopies are not cheap after all).

    Most people do not realize that by federal law the instant someone is on chronic maintenance dialysis they are covered by Medicare. The insurance companies have nothing to do with chronic dialysis. At about 1500 dollars a pop multiplied by tens or hundreds of thousands across the country daily – and you get the picture really quick.

RE one of these links (I'm not sure which):

Employment Situation: “United States Non Farm Payrolls” [Trading Economics]. “The US economy added a meager 194K jobs in September, of 2021, the lowest so far this year and well below forecasts of 500K. Job gains occurred in leisure and hospitality (74K), professional and business services (60K), retail trade (56K), and transportation and warehousing (47K). Meanwhile, employment declined sharply in public education (-161K) and in health care (-18K).” • Interesting that “essential workers” in health care and education would leave the workforce. I wonder why? Some angst over this one:’

 

 

 

 

Weisenthal comments:

The number is out and it’s another big miss. Just 194,000 jobs created in the month, less than the 500,000 consensus estimate.

However, the unemployment rate fell to 4.8%. Combined, these two numbers tell a story of slow hiring and seemingly tight labor markets at the same time.

Despite persistent frustration among employers that the labor market is “tight” (from their perspective), we’re still millions of jobs in the hole relative to where we likely would have been at this point in the absence of the pandemic.

Employment Situation: “United States Unemployment Rate” [Trading Economics]. “The US unemployment rate dropped to 4.8 percent in September 2021, from 5.2 percent in the previous month and below market expectations of 5.1 percent. It was the lowest rate since March 2020, as many people left the labor force and the negative effects of Hurricane Ida and the Delta variant’s summer spike started to fade. Still, the jobless rate remained well above the pre-crisis level of about 3.5 percent due to ongoing labor shortages but is seen declining further in the coming months as companies fill widespread vacancies and as more workers are expected to go back into the labor force.” • “Are expected” lacks agency…

IM Doc

About the labor statistics numbers and the big miss from today.

I am a physician – I am not an accountant nor am I an economist – so I have no special expertise in sussing out these numbers.

However, I feel that I have enough background to comment on my own little world of health care.

I wonder how much the ongoing retirement of the boomers is playing a role here?

The first big picture – if you go back through all these numbers since JAN of 2020 when the pandemic was in utero – this country’s loss of jobs in the health care sector for that whole time is now approaching half a million. Those of us who work in the hospitals and clinics are very acutely aware of this situation, believe me. Let me get this straight, DURING A WORLD WIDE PANDEMIC WHICH HAS NOW KILLED 700K AMERICANS, OUR HEALTH CARE SECTOR HAS LET GO OF HALF A MILLION JOBS? And if one looks at the more granular data – the vast majority of these jobs have been front line nurses, CNAs, and nursing home workers and the like – NOT THE ADMINISTRATORS……

Is there something I am missing here? I just find that whole situation appalling. And now when the screws are really tight we have just no more capacity to lose more. And that is the time our dear leaders have decided to play the mandate card.

Which brings me to the apparent 18000 health care jobs that were lost in SEP 2021 alone. Again – looking at the details – these are front line health care workers for the most part. And I know from personal experience and the scuttlebutt from many others that this is absolutely related to the pending vaccine mandates. This is only going to get worse. Many of our facilities across the country are already in dire straits. And this number was actually quite shocking today.

And yet – you have Nicole Wallace and others during the Biden speech coverage yesterday stating that the mandates are working spectacularly – that all is perfect and going according to plan. Americans are showing the courage not to leave their jobs and keep supporting the family.

Hmmmmm.

I feel obligated to put forth a PSA. In my area, there is a large nursing home run by the hospital and led by MDs and RNs. There is another closeby run by a multi-national corporation and run by MBAs. The MBA nursing home got the edict from HQ that all employees must be vaccinated by OCT 1 – and promptly lost 18 front line staff in one week. The hospital nursing home run by MDs told their employees not to worry right now – no one would be fired until this had all played out in the courts. All these fired CNAs et al easily found jobs in the community. They are not suffering. Who is suffering? The little old people in that nursing home and their families – it has quickly turned into a complete disaster.

LISTEN WELL – IF YOU HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS IN A NURSING HOME SITUATION or PLANNING TO PUT THEM THERE RIGHT NOW – YOU NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT HOW THE PLACE IS STAFFED. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. MANY OF THESE PLACES WHICH WERE ALREADY VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL ARE TURNING INTO DISASTER AREAS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. I DO NOT CARE WHAT NICOLE WALLACE HAS TO SAY ABOUT IT – IT IS A PATIENT SAFETY ISSUE AT THIS POINT. YOU NEED TO BE KEEPING AN EAGLE EYE ON YOUR LOVED ONES.

I am not sure I have ever seen such a bigger own-goal by national politicians as what this one is turning out to be. And that is just the health care aspect of it. All the crap talk by the talking heads exhorting the wondrous decision is not going to change the actual events on the ground. Nursing homes and lots of hospitals are headed for big trouble.


  1. IM Doc

    I always like to point out that the very phrase –

    AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE –

    Is an absolute slap in the face to anyone with 2 firing neurons and a moral compass. Not even Orwellian. And the neoliberal corporatists like Pelosi and Romney throw that name around as if it is a good and moral thing.

IM Doc

About the National Guard being called into various states to man the rehab and nursing homes, urgent care centers and hospitals…..This is even happening right now in my own area.

This is having to be done for 2 main reasons. The employees in the medical realm are just simply exhausted and depressed and are leaving for that reason. And also in many places, those who are left are being fired as part of a vaccine mandate.

FUN FACT – Did you know that a good number if not most of the National Guard troops being called out to fill these positions are actually UNVACCINATED? Oh yes – it is true. I thought it was just my area – but after a few phone calls to colleagues, this is happening elsewhere.

So we are firing people for being unvaccinated – and then turning right around and replacing them with the unvaccinated……to try to alleviate the emergency caused by the initial firing?

Makes sense? right?

Can someone explain to me how this has a God damned thing to do with public health?
 

Lambert Strether

To be fair, the military is one of the few institutions that continues to function (granted, not in a war-winning way, but at least they can still do logistics). Function in some other way than extracting rents from the helpless or deceived, that is.

Another one of these few institutions is the intelligence community (granted, not insofar as collecting intelligence against foreign enemies is concerned, but in terms of domestic politics, I’d say it’s doing pretty well.

Leading me to suggest that when we need to take the National Guard off nursing home duty, we could send in the spooks.

 
  1. IM Doc

    The problem with this situation we are facing now is the National Guard is trained to take care of guarding the nation. The spooks are trained to be spooks. Neither skill set is going to translate into a nursing home of 90 year old demented patients.

    Hilariously, one of them has had to take frequent breaks to vomit. Nursing homes have a certain odor especially in the rooms. It can at times be overwhelming. During my intern year there was a quote told to all the interns – “Breathe deep the aroma of life – let life’s beautiful smells inhabit every cell in your nostrils. But when you are at the VA – just breathe through your mouth”. Believe it or not – even that simple thing is a learned skill.

    The new employees have absolutely no idea for the most part how to correctly take care of patients – especially nursing home patients. The medics among them have some clue – but watching “weekend warrior” used care salesman transporting patients safely much less changing diapers, taking care of catheters correctly or even turning people in bed correctly has been harrowing to say the least. The safety in many of these tasks is certainly not intuitive.

    Again – this is not about public health. We have replaced unvaccinated employees who knew what they were doing and had been trained with unvaccinated “volunteers” who for the most part have not a clue what they are doing. My educated estimation is this is not going to go well for public or patient safety.

IM Doc

Some of my fondest memories as a child were to sit with my father and watch the original series of Star Trek.

After viewing the new Star Trek offerings in the past few years, regrettably, I would never dream for a second of having a child sitting and watching anything having to do with Star Trek at this point. Mr. Roddenberry, who I heard speak at conventions multiple times, repeatedly stated that he was so proud of what his show had meant to America’s Children. Indeed, he must be rolling in his grave right now. I recently read that immediately before his death, he was begging on his knees for the producers to never make Deep Space Nine. Amazing, DS9 is like Captain Kangaroo to some of the fare being offered today – full of F-bombs, gore, extreme violence and angst. What I think would offend him the most is the very very dark overall atmosphere. They even managed to ruin the character of Picard for me forever. There have been episodes where unlike the optimism of Mr. Roddenberry – I just wanted to go blow my head off. At least we still have the DVDs of the old stuff which I am happily watching with my kids right now.

I would also add the the character of Dr. McCoy is one of the big reasons I am a physician.

I was at a conference recently of young physicians about COVID. One of the presentations was actually about Star Trek – and how the philosophy of that show would make it mandatory for any fans to applaud the current “science” and laud any and all efforts that Dr. Fauci was doing for viral research and how so many folks in the Pharma industry were big Star Trek fans. What a wonderful thing that Mr. Roddenberry had invented to instill a love for “science” in so many people. “Science” of course being defined in its current iteration under Pope Fauci.

It fell to me to inform this young man that he had not a clue what he was talking about. During Mr. Roddenberry’s production of the show, there were countless examples of “science” gone wrong at the hands of those who would warp it.

Indeed, just within the first 10 shows of the first season, I can find 5 examples of this extreme concern for what “science” is capable of in the wrong hands.

The most apropos for today – Season 1 Episode 8 – Miri – where the Enterprise crew finds a planet where the scientists had been doing what we would call “gain of function” research and released a virus into the populace that destroyed that world, leaving only the kids behind. It is stuffed with quotes from Dr. McCoy that I would just love to hurl at the Dr Faucis and Dr Wens of our world today.

TV shows like Star Trek-TOS and The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits and much of the written science fiction of that era are both very dated AND simultaneously more profoundly relevant than ever. A dead giveaway that someone is hitting the nail on the head.

 
  1. IM Doc

    Kirk – You will need to isolate that virus – we need to develop a vaccine.

    McCoy – Is that all Captain? We do have 5 days.

    ________________________

    McCoy – “It did not work out quite as they had planned.”
    A general comment on the whole viral project on this planet – they were trying to genetically engineer an immortality virus.
    __________________________

    Kirk putting pressure on McCoy to develop a vaccine.

    Kirk – Work faster doctor….
    McCoy throws the papers on the desk – “Maybe you would like to take a crack at it…”

    _______________________________

    I think the most important of all is the increasing fear and panic experienced by the members of the crew as the disease got worse and worse. The landing party became infected the instant they beamed onto the planet. The increasing signs of infection were highlighted as the episode evolves – and the fear and panic are masterfully played by the actors.

    _____________________

    Spock and McCoy discussing the vaccine ——

    McCoy – The question is what is the correct dose?
    Spock – That is a very good question……It could be a beaker full of death….

    ____________________

    Spock – The vaccine may be fatal
    McCoy – The disease most certainly is…How long do you want to wait?….
    And then McCoy picks up the syringe and plunges it into himself – valiantly making himself the guinea pig……

    ______________________

    It is amazing how well they did with the social mechanics of pandemics and what happens to the collective psyche – and all in just a 50 minute show. I showed this episode and the one that immediately followed – “Dagger of the Mind” – in the Medical Ethics and History Class. Miri was informative about how people react in the setting of a rapidly progressing epidemic – and “Dagger” was a very thorough piece about involuntary commitment in the psych setting and mad doctor experimentation with unproven technology.

The Rev Kev

“Aspirin lowers risk of COVID: New findings support preliminary Israeli trial”

CNN Newsflash – ‘An unsubstantiated and unreliable Israeli study recommends people take medicine given to dogs to cure Covid. Scientists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have criticized this unproven approach and have stated that this is a dangerous practice made worse by the fact that typically people ingested this animal product with dihydrogen monoxide when taking it.’

 
  1. Helena

    Am I being overly paranoid to wonder why it is suddenly dangerous for people to take low-dose aspirin? After it was found to help with COVID?
    I take aspirin daily, it’s the only remedy I can tolerate for my spasticity and arthritis, and works very well. I have been doing this for years. without any problems. It seems like a bonus to find out it has COVID benefits. We are living in dubious times, IMO.

     
    1. Yves Smith

      IM Doc and his colleagues were super duper pissed about these stories. Hoisted from e-mail:

      This is very confusing – and really inappropriate to be putting this in a national newspaper.

      There are so many heart patients out there and their daily ASA is what is keeping their arteries open.

      There are indeed patients who should not be taking ASA – mainly those who have very malignant hypertension. In that setting it can precipitate brain bleeding. But their internist should be paying close attention to these details. ASA is no more likely to cause GI bleeding than any other NSAID – and has a much lower incidence of renal disease.

      I was informed today that our cardiologist office has been bombed with phone calls about this article – and the accompanying piece on CNN.

      This is yet another example of very very dangerous behavior on the part of the news media. They should not be breathlessly reporting these kinds of singleton research findings and they never ever discuss anything in context.

IM Doc

About inflation……..

I was raised in a very large extended family on an ancestral family farm.

As a kid, I listened to my grandparents and uncles tell stories of what it was like in the Great Depression. As I got older, my grandfather would pound into my head multiple things that happened to him as a young man that were harbingers of the bad times to come. That was deflation. As a child myself, my family lived through the oil shock and the stagflation of the 1970s. I think all of us over 50 have living experience with this type of thing.

I will tell everyone here – my red alert signals planted by my elders deep in my brain have been going off full blast this entire year.

I am unable to procure a windshield for my late model van. At any price. There are just none available.

My neighbor’s Ford truck has been disabled since August and unusable because a small part is needed to fix it and is unavailable.

There are multiple buildings all around in various stages of building that have just been abandoned for want of supplies or supplies that are now all of a sudden prohibitively expensive. Some have clearly been left to rot.

We have kids in my kids’ school whose parents were already marginal financially whose children now just have no lunches to eat at these prices in the grocery store. And the school lunches have turned into a horrifying joke. My wife and multiple other parents are making extra for these kids every day.

We have in our part of the country seen the cost of basic staples explode in price just in the past month – sometimes at a very scary rate.

We are seeing large swaths of the local stores empty of many things. Large empty rows of things like canned vegetables, frozen vegetables, and just forget about large groups of various pre-processed foods ( our family does not eat this type of thing anyway). The sections with sodas ( yet another thing we do not use) are just empty most of the time except for the Coca Cola products which it seems everyone around my place are boycotting.

And many essentials are non-existent, for example Kerr and Ball canning products.

And like no time in my career, we in the office are having to juggle all kinds of medications and prescriptions. Many pharmaceuticals are just simply not available. Especially all the various types of long-acting insulin (Tresiba and Tuojeo are the worst), rheumatology drugs (Enbrel and Humira), asthma inhalers and many types of antibiotics.

I am somewhat comforted that my wife and I saw the writing on the wall several years ago and moved to the vast expanse of rural America. We have just procured half a cow from our neighbor for example and have on our property chickens galore and abundant eggs every day. Just like my grandparents taught me to do – we have been canning and preparing all summer. Large containers of flour and sugar are stored and ready. We are about as prepared as anyone in our family.

Yet – I never dreamed I would hear an American administration just so glibly blow off the entire situation – Psaki – “Everything is great – people are just buying a lot of stuff” and “Get over it, maybe no treadmill this year”. I just cannot believe what I am hearing. I know from talking to my patients that there are already lots of people already suffering – and this tripe is what is coming out of Washington? First we were blessed with the visage of an American president smiling with glee announcing that many millions of Americans were about to be fired – and now this? I truly no longer recognize my country. I have serious reservations that any of our leaders in either party have a clue or the will to do anything about this impeding situation.


The Rev Kev

“In Major Shift, NIH Admits Funding Risky Virus Research in Wuhan”

The National Institutes of Health & Fauci are like one of those rocks that you pry up and all sort of creepy crawlies start to scuttle their way out of the daylight. This knowledge of the NIH funding risky research in a foreign country like China is already know. But today I read about another project conducted by the NIH that was investigated by the same people that revealed the Wuhan connection and House members were shocked to discover this other research funded by them.

In this case, “Our investigators show that Fauci’s NIH division shipped part of a $375,800 grant to a lab in Tunisia to drug beagles and lock their heads in mesh cages filled with hungry sand flies so that the insects could eat them alive.” It gets better. “Some of the dogs had their vocal cords removed so scientists could work without incessant barking.” So an experiment that probably could not be conducted in the US without bringing down the wrath of all sorts of rights groups was outsourced to another country so that it would be out of sight and the NIH & Fauci would get to keep their hands clean. Link below with picture of experiment. Sometimes profanity is not enough-

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/578086-bipartisan-legislators-demand-answers-from-fauci

 
  1. Screwball

    Funny, nothing of this story on the CNN website when I looked a little bit ago. Curious if it made the Sunday morning shows as well since I won’t watch them, maybe someone did. I expect this to get the same treatment that so many other stories get they don’t want to talk about – nothing to see here, move along.

     
  2. chris

    That’s atrocious. I have no idea why an IRB or ethics review would have allowed that kind of thing even if it was proposed to be done in another jurisdiction.

    And yeah, I expect that kind of story to continually be in the news for middle America and absent on the coasts. If you really want to take Biden down, hamstring him by pointing out he’s surrounded by horrible people, and then force voters and viewers to see him handle stuff by himself. With someone like Fauci, he really doesn’t have an option to distance his administration from him. So making Fauci look bad is an easy way to attack the president.

     
    1. IM Doc

      From an IRB chairman for more than a decade –

      In general – IRB ( institutional review boards ) are only applicable to research involving HUMAN subjects. In any research, there are usually multiple animal trials early on that are not under the guidance of the IRB. Once the research makes it to patients and humans, the animal research is certainly applicable and ALL OF IT is made known to the IRB in every detail they demand.

      This type of gain-of-function research to my knowledge was never intended to be used for patient care. This was being done for viral research in a broad population manner – as in to see what we can create to kill the most humans – or what can we create that our side can vaccinate quickly, or let’s see what the enemies are doing, or let’s prepare for pandemics with this XYZ virus. Gain of function research on viruses in general is not really applicable to health or alleviating disease. I suppose a case could be made for mutating viruses for cancer therapy or somesuch but that does not appear to be what they seem to be mainly doing. As you can see, this type of thing is clearly not in the purview of a local IRB. It is also fraught with moral problems as evidenced by the actions of recent Congresses and the Obama Administration.

      It absolutely SHOULD be under the purview of the Ethics Committee at the NIH or the NIAID or whatever government agency funded the research. Obviously, it would be somewhat difficult to take to the NIH Ethics Board that which has been explicitly forbidden by Presidents and Congress alike. Of course, one has only to look at who exactly is the head of the Ethics Department at the NIH to realize that we have an enormous conflict of interest. One that I have yet to hear a peep this entire 2 years from ANY mainstream media source.

      Whether or not COVID-19 came from a lab or not, there is now available such overwhelming and incontrivertible documentation that Fauci, et al, seemed to be involved in things that were directly opposed to guidance provided from both the Executive and Legislative branches of our government that a full investigation is warranted and must be done. In Congress. In front of everyone. Look at what this virus has done. Given the toll that any novel virus could promulgate on our planet, especially one genetically altered to maximize damage, to not investigate this at this point would be a crime against humanity. Put COVID aside. It is still unclear whether COVID was a lab leak or not. But just imagine the menagerie of beasties that could be out there somewhere ready to escape.

      It is my considered opinion that we will get nowhere as a country with this pandemic until we have medical leadership that can be trusted by all Americans. With all of this going on with EcoHealth and the NIH, it is very clear to me that whatever happened, Dr. Fauci needs to be fired right now. And then a full investigation into this mess needs to be immediately convened in the US Congress.

RE: Business groups ask Biden to delay vaccine mandate until after the holidays Becker’s Hospital Review, a longer thread that I didn't want to take the time to sort out (sorry, skip whatever you feel inclined to skip) :D :


IM Doc

One has only to read the article above in the links regarding big business trying to postpone the mandates until after Christmas to realize this has nothing to do with the truth.

All the happy horse shit talk about how well the vaccine mandates are going is just that – happy horse shit. Where I am, we are seeing local outlets of the big corporations dying on the vine. It has everything to do with the mandates – I talk to these people daily. There are some local owners telling their national corporations to rot in hell.

We are firing Americans but allowing all kinds of illegals in without even testing them.

Why has the administration not had a formal filing of these mandates? Because the instant they do file, there will be lawsuits flying and the administration knows it does not have a chance.

This has nothing to do with truth, science, or public health. I simply cannot understand their purpose.
 

  1. Carolinian

    What you said.

    And I think the purpose is to try to “solve” Covid so that business as usual can resume. But Biden is surrounded by people who have drunk the Kool Aid on the vaccines and he himself, judging from a townhall, doesn’t even seem to know that the vaxxed can both get the disease and transmit it. To me the whole notion that this wouldn’t be a political disaster, at least, is baffling. It has to be because he and his advisers are in a bubble.

     
    1. Katniss Everdeen

      I suspect covid will not be “solved” until 12/31/21 when the cdc

      ….. withdraw[s] the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) [!!!] of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only.

      The bad news is that the flu will be making a comeback.

      “CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season….

      I am being only marginally sarcastic.

      https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

       
    2. Mikel

      I’m beginning ti wonder how much of it is a mindset aling the lines of “just following orders.”

      It’s like they developed a plan with half-baked research and data that pointed them to a return to “the normal” and it’s imagined previous glory and, despite any evidence to the contrary, they will now just gaslight the public with authoritarian wishful thinking.

       
    3. Lambert Strether

      > It has to be because he and his advisers are in a bubble.

      To be fair to Biden, where exactly would he go for good information? We had CDC and WHO refusing to accept the correct theory of transmission for (it feels like, anyhow) a solid year. And they still resist it bureaucratically. The infection control community in hospitals resists aerosol transmission ferociously.

      Bubbles tend to be pretty thick-walled and they pop only when the class of people inside them are deposed. Think of LBJ and Vietnam…. The Romanovs…

       
  2. Regulus regulus

    Where does one “file” Executive Orders? The order was executed and published on Sept 9, extending EO 13991. The order gives authority to the Agencies to provide guidance on how best to comply with EO 13991.

    The foreign services have required certain vaccines for a long time. One is not free to die of malaria on Congress’s dime. The Court is not likely to injunct other Federal Employees from getting the vaccine. Public safety and communicable disease control is the least controversial power the States share with Federal Agencies.

     
    1. Carolinian

      I believe he means the OSHA vax rule which has not yet been published.

      And comparing the still experimental Covid vax (still applies to leftover vials as FDA approved the named commercial Pfizer version*) to sterilizing childhood vaccines or other vaccines with decades of successful use is a false analogy. But since it will come down to courts to decide then surely the mandate should be on hold until they do. Biden isn’t a king who gets to make drastic social rules with the wave of a hand.

      *Apparently this being claimed by some of the legal challenges already filed.

       
    2. IM Doc

      Can you please show me where OSHA has actually made any kind of ruling in this matter? If not, why not? – this has now been going on for weeks. The entity for whom I personally work has vociferously stated that no action on the mandates will be taken until OSHA has spoken. And then, trust me, the tsunami of lawsuits wiil begin. There are all kinds of companies across this country telegraphing a similar message. There are consequences for leaders when they make orders like this and put them on the backs of agencies that have no business whatsoever involved in the situation.

      Additionally – we are not talking about malaria – nor are we talking about the foreign service. We are talking about millions of Americans whose president just announced before a CNN audience that he would happily have them fired – all to a rousing applause. Again – I am not speaking to a whole lot of patients or friends who find this type of thing even remotely appropriate. I for instance am a life long liberal. I will be voting a straight Republican ticket from now on until the enema that the Dems need has occurred. Looking at polls, it is quite clear I am not alone. I would rather live with the knowns of what the GOP has to offer rather than these duplicitous fools. I can show you all kinds of videos from politicos – from Biden to Pelosi to Fauci to Schumer just in the fall of last year stating that vaccine mandates have no way to work and no way to be enforced. They were very correct then. They are liars now.

      FYI – public health is not something that was just invented. It has been through centuries of trials and testing. One of its cardinal rules is that COERCION never works – and we are about to relearn that lesson right now in a big way.

      Talking about vaccinating the military and the foreign service is NOT THE GENERAL PUBLIC – nor does it have a thing to do with PUBLIC health.

      I deal with the vaccine hesitant daily. The simple underlying issue that is going on with most of them – is they have zero trust in our federal health officials. ZERO. Just look at the NIH statement about gain of function research put out this week – and compare that to the Fauci testimony of May and July. If he is lying about that – what else is he lying about?

       
        1. Lambert Strether

          Yes, it is. I linked to it several weeks ago, and it got no traction at all. But vile though Fauci’s Noble Lie was, it’s important to depersonalize the issue, and to see that his lies are an issue with the so-called public health establishment generally.

IM Doc

I feel like I need to give an update from my world. Many things are happening all at the same time.

In brief, I feel that the “troubles” have started in earnest now in medicine in ways I did not see coming just weeks ago. What we in medicine are simply not going to be able to abide right now is a surge like we saw last winter.

First of all, as a PCP, I have always had the ability to zap small non-invasive skin cancers. We do that with liquid nitrogen. We have been out of this for a week or so now. Sourcing a new supply is now virtually impossible. And the amounts being asked for what is left are so astronomically high that we simply cannot afford it. Medicare reimbursement (which is most of these patients) will not even come close to recovering the cost. I understand from the supplier that the same issues are occurring to some degree with dry ice and more ominously liquid oxygen (used in hospitals of patient oxygen). I heard from 2 different suppliers the reason why this seems to be happening – but the reason is so “tin foil” that I am not going to repeat it here until I can confirm this more reliably.

I know there are lots of biomedical folks here in labs that are frequent commenters….Are any of you having the same problems?

If this becomes a pattern, I would recommend to all to get your derm visit scheduled ASAP – my understanding is this will not be temporary.

Our hospital staff is so diminished that my clinic employees are constantly being pulled to cover issues there. Outpatient clinical medicine is no longer organized here – it has become a frantic triage. Right now, I would urge all Americans to not take their anger and temper out on medical office employees. They and their physicians are absolutely overwhelmed.

That problem however is minor. The hospital system pre-COVID was a disaster area – it is now officially a shit show. The discharge process is now turned into a complete cludge. The problem in brief is that the companies that do home health and home oxygen and nursing home care have had their staffs now vanish to unworkable levels. Much of this has to do with exhaustion. But it is also the vaccine mandates. These are all national corporations – so they instituted mandates weeks ago. And promptly lost large segments of their staff. Enough time has now passed for the remaining employees to experience complete exhaustion. You can only do so many 80 hour work weeks after all. So now – there is nowhere for these discharging patients to go that is safe. They are having to stay in the hospital – but that is simply not going to be workable for long. The hospital too has had its staff decimated.

I have sat through a whole 4 months or so of patients condescendingly tell me they would never allow an unvaccinated HCW to touch them. Over and over. My constant refrain was to be very careful about that feeling – you may have NO health care workers to touch you if you keep that up. And we are slowly but surely arriving at that destination. At least two of these patients stuck in the hospital are two who could not bash the intransigent HCWs enough. They have now received their wish. Payment in full.

My niece just graduated from nursing school in June. Immediately hired on a COVID unit in a major hospital in one of our big cities. She has been there three months as dozens and dozens of nurses, MAs and RTs have left. My mind was completely and totally blown when she called to ask my advice last night – THEY HAD JUST OFFERED HER THE JOB OF FLOOR CHARGE NURSE in her hospital – a 3 month nurse – a job that in other times was given to grizzled veterans.

I am not sure we are going to have to wait for judicial input into these vaccine mandates. The slow motion implosion has already begun at least in medicine. I am hearing the same stories if not worse from colleagues everywhere.

I am not trying to alarm or scare. I am presenting my world as it is. I do not believe most Americans understand how dire this situation really is.


IM Doc

When I get angry or alarmed, I come here to write it all out – it makes me feel better to just know that I have some kind of outlet. I appreciate that greatly about this site. I think this is important today.

I have a feeling we are in for far more serious “troubles” in the medical realm than just nurses in the hospital quitting. Pharma issues are happening – and may reach out and touch any one of you or your family. To be warned is to be prepared.

A very pernicious problem with pharma shortages has begun to set in. For the most part, they seem to be temporary – but they are absolutely devastating to patients financially – and I want all to understand what is going on.

This mainly seems to be happening in insulin products, immunologic agents ( as in Enbrel and Humira) and chemotherapy ( of which I personally deal very infrequently).

I am now up to 11 patients where this has happened just this week alone. All of whom are under 30, diabetic and on insulin or with lupus and on immunomodulating drugs. All are taking their health very seriously.

Most modern pharmaceuticals are distributed with the use of PBMs. big gigantic companies that are middlemen between pharma and consumers. They all have contracts with each product where they get a very good price on 1 particular agent in each class. For example – XYZ PBM has a great price on Lantus Insulin – so they will only distribute Lantus to their patients. If you must have the others – well – you get to pay the 700 dollars a month out of pocket – uncovered by your insurance. It is really quite a racket if some poor soul cannot tolerate the selected drug.

We are now experiencing fairly severe shortages on insulin products and immunoproducts. Again – they seem to be temporary – but 10 days is life or death to a Type I DM. So when their refill comes up – and their particular PBM contracted insulin type is unavailable – they get to pay full freight on another in the class – often 500-700 dollars a month. The PBMs are absolutely heartless – will not budge an inch – knowing in full that the shortage is beyond the patient’s control – and also that they are completely dependent. So the patients pay the 500 dollars for an alternative – only to find out that 7 days later – their “covered” insulin is available again. But it may not be when it comes time for a refill. And because their “great” insurance (It’s a big f@#ckin’ deal! – remember that?) that Obamacare delivered to the land has often 10 or 15 thousand dollar deductibles – they get to pay the full amount.

I have no idea why these shortages are happening. It is however constant. Again – not just insulin – the arthritis drugs are a real problem as well. My office staff is spending large chunks of time on this. Nothing like this has happened before in my career. This is new territory.

500-700 dollars is a lot of cash for these young people – and they are struggling under the load. I have not experienced young fathers crying in my office like I have this week. Again, the “troubles” have just begun.

We have here a pharmacy from a national corporation and also a local owned and operated pharmacy. The national chain basically tells the kids to pound sand. The local owned outfit, whose owner is in multiple civic organizations is giving them their alternative at his cost – and indeed I think he is giving it to them at his own expense as well. This fact is not going unnoticed in the community at large – and who do you think the goodwill is being bestowed upon? And who is getting the evil eye? I do not find it strange that we are suddenly seeing many prescription requests transferred to the local guy.

Furthermore, these young under 30s, black white and Hispanic – historically in the Dems back pocket – are now repeatedly discussing their politics with me. Unsolicited. I hear “FJB” all day long now. I am very sad to report that the coddling of Big Pharma, the year of one lie after another from our medical leadership, the disaster that Obamacare actually is on the ground, the promise to “follow the science” and then clearly act more political than anything before, and the raping that our populace is getting from these PBMs is absolutely causing a sea change in where I have normally seen young people politically. Again many minorities as well. They are very angry. Right or wrong, they perceive the Dems and people like Biden and Pelosi as directly responsible. And I live in a mostly blue area. And I do not blame them for a minute. One man explained to me very kindly that he had to be discharged from his federal job because of the vaccine mandate – and reported to me with great contempt that Biden had him fired – but was going to hand out half a million dollars to all kinds of illegal immigrants. “I voted for Obama twice, Clinton and Biden – but they can suck it if they think I am voting for them again.” I simply do not engage politics in my office. If they bring it up, I listen. Clearly, the kids are indeed beginning to realize what is at stake in their future. As a life-long Dem, I am very concerned that we may be seeing another Whig implosion. The thing that bothers me is I do not see any evidence whatsoever that anyone in the Dem leadership even cares. They have anchored themselves to some very troubling things that really affect people in their daily lives – and the bill is coming due. Again – I am seeing enough tragic things being ignored and lied about that for the first time in my life, I will be voting a straight GOP ticket until the bad apples are rooted out. I do not think in my life I have ever seen a group of politicians that need some time in the wilderness more urgently.


petal

IM Doc, my friends with the core facility that has multiple freezers heard from the hospital’s procurement folks who had tracked down the airgas manager. “He said there is no shortage of product(LN2) but a shortage of drivers for bulk tank deliveries.”
The procurement folks thanked my friends for bringing it to their attention and said they will keep an eye on the situation. I hope I don’t look too much like an idiot/boy that cried wolf.

 
  1. IM Doc

    We still have not received any – and there is no date when it can be delivered. The “tin foil” issue that I brought up was indeed about trucking – apparently, there are very specific training guidelines for these types of products and very specific trucks and there are just no drivers available. There was more “colorful” commentary but again I cannot confirm at this time.

    I am in a remote area – that is certainly part of the problem. But the fact we are having these troubles with vital supplies even here should be an early warning indicator that we have issues as a society. The system has thrown a rod – and what used to be reliable no longer is. Fascinating times.

    Our supplier is trying very hard to get the now very elevated cost of the transport of these gases passed onto the final user – and there is just no way that is economically feasible in our area. And then another wrinkle at least here is the actual company that puts it in the cans is having trouble getting the equipment and other needs transported to their facility. “We have not had the ability in about a month”. So they do not even have product to send. So we have supply chain problems – and we have delivery chain problems. It seems like everything has a screw loose right now. I do also have multiple patients who are now on emergency oxygen compressors – because the cans of oxygen are no longer available reliably in our area – and I have just not had the time to figure out why that is suddenly happening. The compressor approach is much more expensive and I have no idea how long the insurance companies are going to be willing to pay.

    As far as the skin lesions and the liqiud nitrogen, looks like it is back to the old clip them off and put in a stitch. So much more time consuming that it is hardly done anymore.

    I am seriously not understanding what happened – it is like all the truck drivers just POOF disappeared.

IM Doc on Medication/Medical Supply Shortages and Political Backlash

IM Doc weighed in twice this week in Water Cooler on the dire scarcity of some critical medical products in his area, a rich pocket in flyover. While some of them may be significantly the result of being at a remove from big cities, others seemed to reflect wide-spread outages.

We’ve seen less scary versions of this movie before. A few years ago, the US was suffering widespread shortages of the bags used to deliver IV fluids because the factory in Puerto Rico that was close to the sole producer was knocked out in a hurricane.

IM Doc does not have a clear answer as to why these shortages are so numerous. Domestic trucker shortages may be part of the problem. But the US is extremely dependent on China and India for drugs. 80% of the active pharmaceutical ingredients and and 90% of generics are believed to come from them (no one knows for sure because the US does not believe in having the government know anything). So the famed coastal port traffic jams may be contributing to the problem. The Wall Street Journal pointed out in August 2020 that disruptions in product from China had generated shortages in acetaminophen, antibiotics and high blood pressure medications.

IM Doc weighed in on Wednesday and again yesterday and I though it was worth hoisting them to encourage further discussion as well as circulation to friends and colleagues. I’ve edited both comments to focus on the supply issues; he also discussed staffing shortages at his and other hospitals. As his second comment makes clear, at least in the people he treats, there’s a great deal of anger at the Administration, as in the Democrats, for not even acknowledging these potentially life-threatening and also budget-destroying shortages, even among groups like the young and minorities who would otherwise generally be assumed to favor or at least consider Democrats.

I’m amazed that there hasn’t been a backlash against the Tories for their deliberate destruction of the NHS, which has become more catastrophic thanks to Brexit and Covid. But Labour is so enfeebled that it seems unable to find any way to profit from Tory disasters, plus the Brits are a very stoic bunch.

Even though the first discussion, of difficulties in getting liquid nitrogen, is revealing, the meat comes in IM Doc’s second topic, shortages in multiple categories of critically important medications.

From IM Doc on October 27:

I feel that the “troubles” have started in earnest now in medicine in ways I did not see coming just weeks ago. What we in medicine are simply not going to be able to abide right now is a surge like we saw last winter.

First of all, as a PCP, I have always had the ability to zap small non-invasive skin cancers. We do that with liquid nitrogen. We have been out of this for a week or so now. Sourcing a new supply is now virtually impossible. And the amounts being asked for what is left are so astronomically high that we simply cannot afford it. Medicare reimbursement (which is most of these patients) will not even come close to recovering the cost. I understand from the supplier that the same issues are occurring to some degree with dry ice and more ominously liquid oxygen (used in hospitals of patient oxygen). I heard from 2 different suppliers the reason why this seems to be happening – but the reason is so “tin foil” that I am not going to repeat it here until I can confirm this more reliably.

On October 27 from petal:

I run a research lab at a well-known med school. We have a -140 freezer. It was alarming, which is unusual. We had been given 1 regular tank and 1 half tank instead of the usual 2 regular tanks-1 attached and 1 for backup. Both tanks we had were empty, including the attached half tank even though it was showing half full (or half empty, whichever kind of person you are…). Our Airgas guy comes once a week anywhere from Tuesday-Thursday. I emailed the manager, got an out of office reply(great!). Called the #, got a live guy. He said he’d ring the delivery guy and see if he could swing by with a partial tank because it’s an emergency. He said there’s a nationwide shortage of LN2, and they “are having trouble getting it.” Luckily the guy dropped off the partial. I let my friends in a core facility (they have 2 huge -140s) know about the LN2 shortage and they’re freaking out (as was I). We cannot lose what’s in these, and cells can’t be stored at -80 for long before losing viability.

I did a net search, and a bunch of space industry articles came up(this stuff is needed for rockets). They said due to the spike in covid patients being put on vents, there’s a spike in the need for liquid oxygen for the vents, and that trucks that used to carry LN2 are being converted to carry liquid oxygen because the premium is higher than if they deliver a load of LN2. That’s all I found. So if there’s also a shortage of liquid oxygen, I don’t have any ideas, unless it’s the whole trucker shortage thing. Not a clue.

petal later added:

My friends with the core facility that has multiple freezers heard from the hospital’s procurement folks who had tracked down the Airgas manager. “He said there is no shortage of product(LN2) but a shortage of drivers for bulk tank deliveries.”

IM Doc’s reply:

I am in a remote area – that is certainly part of the problem. But the fact we are having these troubles with vital supplies even here should be an early warning indicator that we have issues as a society. The system has thrown a rod – and what used to be reliable no longer is. Fascinating times.

Our supplier is trying very hard to get the now very elevated cost of the transport of these gases passed onto the final user – and there is just no way that is economically feasible in our area. And then another wrinkle at least here is the actual company that puts it in the cans is having trouble getting the equipment and other needs transported to their facility. “We have not had the ability in about a month”. So they do not even have product to send. So we have supply chain problems – and we have delivery chain problems. It seems like everything has a screw loose right now. I do also have multiple patients who are now on emergency oxygen compressors – because the cans of oxygen are no longer available reliably in our area – and I have just not had the time to figure out why that is suddenly happening. The compressor approach is much more expensive and I have no idea how long the insurance companies are going to be willing to pay.

As far as the skin lesions and the liqiud nitrogen, looks like it is back to the old clip them off and put in a stitch. So much more time consuming that it is hardly done anymore.

I am seriously not understanding what happened – it is like all the truck drivers just POOF

From IM Doc on October 29:

I have a feeling we are in for far more serious “troubles” in the medical realm than just nurses in the hospital quitting. Pharma issues are happening – and may reach out and touch any one of you or your family. To be warned is to be prepared.

A very pernicious problem with pharma shortages has begun to set in. For the most part, they seem to be temporary – but they are absolutely devastating to patients financially – and I want all to understand what is going on.

This mainly seems to be happening in insulin products, immunologic agents ( as in Enbrel and Humira) and chemotherapy ( of which I personally deal very infrequently).

I am now up to 11 patients where this has happened just this week alone. All of whom are under 30, diabetic and on insulin or with lupus and on immunomodulating drugs. All are taking their health very seriously.

Most modern pharmaceuticals are distributed with the use of PBMs. big gigantic companies that are middlemen between pharma and consumers. They all have contracts with each product where they get a very good price on 1 particular agent in each class. For example – XYZ PBM has a great price on Lantus Insulin – so they will only distribute Lantus to their patients. If you must have the others – well – you get to pay the 700 dollars a month out of pocket – uncovered by your insurance. It is really quite a racket if some poor soul cannot tolerate the selected drug.

We are now experiencing fairly severe shortages on insulin products and immunoproducts. Again – they seem to be temporary – but 10 days is life or death to a Type I DM. So when their refill comes up – and their particular PBM contracted insulin type is unavailable – they get to pay full freight on another in the class – often 500-700 dollars a month. The PBMs are absolutely heartless – will not budge an inch – knowing in full that the shortage is beyond the patient’s control – and also that they are completely dependent. So the patients pay the 500 dollars for an alternative – only to find out that 7 days later – their “covered” insulin is available again. But it may not be when it comes time for a refill. And because their “great” insurance (It’s a big f@#ckin’ deal! – remember that?) that Obamacare delivered to the land has often 10 or 15 thousand dollar deductibles – they get to pay the full amount.

I have no idea why these shortages are happening. It is however constant. Again – not just insulin – the arthritis drugs are a real problem as well. My office staff is spending large chunks of time on this. Nothing like this has happened before in my career. This is new territory.

500-700 dollars is a lot of cash for these young people – and they are struggling under the load. I have not experienced young fathers crying in my office like I have this week. Again, the “troubles” have just begun.

We have here a pharmacy from a national corporation and also a local owned and operated pharmacy. The national chain basically tells the kids to pound sand. The local owned outfit, whose owner is in multiple civic organizations is giving them their alternative at his cost – and indeed I think he is giving it to them at his own expense as well. This fact is not going unnoticed in the community at large – and who do you think the goodwill is being bestowed upon? And who is getting the evil eye? I do not find it strange that we are suddenly seeing many prescription requests transferred to the local guy.

Furthermore, these young under 30s, black white and Hispanic – historically in the Dems back pocket – are now repeatedly discussing their politics with me. Unsolicited. I hear “FJB” all day long now.

I am very sad to report that the coddling of Big Pharma, the year of one lie after another from our medical leadership, the disaster that Obamacare actually is on the ground, the promise to “follow the science” and then clearly act more political than anything before, and the raping that our populace is getting from these PBMs is absolutely causing a sea change in where I have normally seen young people politically. Again many minorities as well. They are very angry. Right or wrong, they perceive the Dems and people like Biden and Pelosi as directly responsible. And I live in a mostly blue area.

And I do not blame them for a minute. One man explained to me very kindly that he had to be discharged from his federal job because of the vaccine mandate – and reported to me with great contempt that Biden had him fired – but was going to hand out half a million dollars to all kinds of illegal immigrants. “I voted for Obama twice, Clinton and Biden – but they can suck it if they think I am voting for them again.” I simply do not engage politics in my office. If they bring it up, I listen. Clearly, the kids are indeed beginning to realize what is at stake in their future.

As a life-long Dem, I am very concerned that we may be seeing another Whig implosion. The thing that bothers me is I do not see any evidence whatsoever that anyone in the Dem leadership even cares. They have anchored themselves to some very troubling things that really affect people in their daily lives – and the bill is coming due. Again – I am seeing enough tragic things being ignored and lied about that for the first time in my life, I will be voting a straight GOP ticket until the bad apples are rooted out. I do not think in my life I have ever seen a group of politicians that need some time in the wilderness more urgently.

Needless to say, the fact that problems of this seriousness are happening and aren’t even being acknowledged means that the situation can and likely will get much worse.

IM Doc

I have not even had time to process the outrage I have for the next problem – but I thought this was about as good a place to share it – I am just dumbfounded by what I am seeing going on.

I have now had 2 different patients in the past week with the same problem. They are both young fathers. They are both Roman Catholic. They are both profoundly healthy as are their wives and young kids. They both are employed by 2 different multi-national corporations who have imposed vaccine mandates on ALL their employees. These 2 young men both work from home in front of a computer all day. They never encounter anyone outside of their family and grocery stores, etc.

Because both have very traditional Catholic views, both have declined the COVID vaccines because of the fetal tissue problems. I have always been under the impression that religious freedom was a bedrock of our Republic.

Both corporate HR departments have now sent both of these patients emails demanding further “clarification” of their religious views.

Interestingly, both emails from 2 different companies with HQ thousands of miles from one another, contain a very interesting statement. It is slightly different between the 2 – but I will paraphrase it – “Since you are claiming a religious exemption based on your objection to fetal tissue being used in the vaccine development, please discuss how you also plan to deal with your objection when using common drugs like aspirin, tums, ibuprofen, and tylenol…….

Both emails had the SAME 4 DRUGS listed – but the question was written in different language in both.

That is when I knew that games were being played. It is very clear to me that some entity has been pushing this out for all the corporations to send out. And whoever sent this out is literally as dumb as bricks.

Fetal tissue being used in the development of these drugs? Are you fucking serious?

Tums is basically chalk – as in chalkboard. A simple chemical compound.

Aspirin was developed before the Civil War. Tylenol or its forebears date back to the late 1800s and ibuprofen came of its own in the 1960s.

ALL FOUR OF THESE HAVE NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH HUMAN FETAL CELL LINES. They are all old drugs. Fetal cell lines were really not a thing until after Roe v Wade in the 1970s once the procurement procedure became legal.

After consulting with their priest, I have sent the HR people in both companies the following letter –

Dear XXX,

Patient XYZ has been under my care for X years. I have gotten to know him very well. As a practicing Roman Catholic, who espouses the traditional aspects of his religion, he is opposed in every way to the practice of abortion and certainly to the use of the fruits of what he considers an immoral act.

Because of the tone and flippancy of your letter to him, I have to conclude that you are not serious in addressing his concerns. Since we are indeed discussing the livelihood of a young man and his wife and young kids, I feel that everything we do in this matter should be done with good faith.

I am therefore asking of you a simple request. I need you to back up your assertions in the email you sent him that aspirin, tylenol, ibuprofen and tums were engineered with the use of human fetal cell lines. I have been a physician for decades and have never heard any such thing about these drugs. I am however open to learning new things. Please provide me with those sources so I can discuss your concerns and ramifications with my patient.

Until such time that proof of your assertions has been provided, I will assume you are not acting in good faith – and I will be sharing my concerns with any attorneys that happen to get involved.

Warm Regards,
IM DOC

I want everyone to understand. When I learned Public Health principles 30 years ago, when my father learned them 60 years ago, there was a bedrock statement – COERCION IN PUBLIC HEALTH NEVER WORKS – IT WILL INSTEAD OFTEN BACKFIRE. It is clear to me that Biden, Pelosi, and Fauci were all keenly aware of this simple fact last fall and winter when they were emphatically stating that mandates did not work and were not going to happen. Unfortunately, that wisdom was not continued – and I fear we are all going to learn that time-honored public health wisdom is not something to be ignored or played with. God help us.

 
  1. Yves Smith

    I looked at the laws on a cursory basis early on, in terms of religious and Americans With Disabilities exemptions (let’s just assume clear cut ones, like being allergic to the vaccine constituents; even the CDC says “Don’t take it!” in that case). I was surprised. The requirement for private sector employers to provide an accommodation is pretty weak. This is more evenhanded than some write-ups I have seen:

    https://www.venable.com/insights/publications/2021/06/employers-guide-to-the-religious-exemption

    Nevertheless, the officialdom has succeeded in promulgating the myth (or at best exaggeration) that not being vaccinated = health risk to others, as opposed to self. It’s back to the Big Lie that the vaccines are sterilizing. But the CDC and various officials have made enough statements to that effect that employers can treat that as true.

    And the Feds moving to strong-form mandates (vax only) means an employer can be bullheaded and not offer frequent testing as an accommodation (we’ve said everyone should be tested, this treating the vaccinated as if they can’t transmit has led high vax countries into a world of hurt, see high vaccine rates in Ireland, Iceland, and Israel accompanied by surges, as well as the big study that showed zero correlation between vax rates and contagion rates).

    As for the religious part, the next level of attack by an employer that wants to play hardball is questioning the bona fides of the “religious” belief. The first is demanding proof of their observance. The second is to point out that the Catholic Church has said being vaxxed is “an act of love.” Who are they to question the Pope? The third is to try to argue that the use of fetal cell lines is only super tenuous for Pfizer and Moderna, as in their objection could not be bona fide if they had good information (see here: https://www.icsi.org/covid-19-vaccine-faq/are-the-mrna-vaccines-made-with-fetal-cells/)

     
    1. IM Doc

      Of course, we must consider that is the same Catholic hierarchy who has been covering up boy raping for decades.

      I guess that is an “act of love” as well.

      I am not Catholic. However, it became immediately apparent when talking to this particular priest that this fetal cell line issue may not be equal between the boy raping hierarchy and the great masses in the hinterlands.

      I am not sure how that all plays out in court.

Objective Ace

450,000 per child or familly seperated at the border is a far cry from “every illegal immigrant” which is what Timbers started this chain off saying

 
    1. Objective Ace

      Direct copied quote “AND…headlines that Senator Biden is considering giving $450,000 to each illegal immigrant”

      ImDoc clearly quoted a patient. Most people wouldn’t take that as a fact like we would a Wallstreet journal report

       
      1. timbers

        Thank you for correcting you misstatement, which as you note, I did not say “every” as you originally said I did. I said “each.”

        But yes, I stand corrected on a point of grammar/sloppy wording.

        But, it seems you might be missing the point, which IM Doc made more clearly than I, below.

        $450,000 to non US citizens who broke the law when US citizens get far less if anything.

         
      2. timbers

        And patient quote:

        “Biden… was going to hand out half a million dollars to all kinds of illegal immigrants.”

        I did not say it was a fact. Others did, and I didn’t say “every” YOU said “every” and I didn’t start the chain.

        In other words, every thing you said I said, I didn’t say.

         
  1. IM Doc

    It is also a far cry from what was offered to my aunt after losing her husband in Vietnam and who spent the rest of her life as a single mother raising their kids. It was a fraction of 450,000 in today’s money. Fortunately, she had lots of help from her family members. It was a hard life for them – but fortunately those kids are all adults now and citizens in good standing today.

    What is being proposed is a complete slap in the face to every family or spouse who has had to face such a situation.

    I absolutely understand why these people are pissed off.

    I must face my own feelings and realize I am in concordance with how my patient feels. I will never vote for anyone whose administration has the balls to put anything like this forward – I just simply cannot believe it.

    If there was not some truth to this preposterous story, I would think the White House would be all over the place with the denial cannons. I have seen no such effort.. If any of you have please point me to it.

The Rev Kev

Got no real answer except for a question here. Liquid nitrogen may be important for treating skin cancers, etc. but liquid oxygen is critical from what I have seen to treat Coronavirus victims. Last year they were running short of oxygen tanks in India and patients in hospitals died by the numbers when the oxygen ran out. So would it be worthwhile contacting other industries (sporting actually) where they use oxygen so that you can grab your hospital some bottles? Here I am thinking of suppliers for mountain climbers and deep sea divers. I understand that the stuff, with proper insulation, lasts almost indefinitely but I would not be surprised to see a shortage down the track of oxygen bottles.

 
  1. IM Doc

    Modern hospitals do not use bottles except during transport of patients from different areas while they are mobile or for brief periods of time in the ER or radiology.

    Every room in the hospital has an oxygen port that is ultimately connected to gigantic tanks of liquid or gas oxygen in the parking lots. They are often stories tall and in the USA are often painted at least partially green.

    The temporary bottles are filled from this source as well.

    In essence, modern hospitals are absolutely dependent on a constant flow of oxygen into those gigantic storage tanks. I have often marveled at how vulnerable this is to an attack. Unfortunately, these tanks are also highly explosive if ignited although I am told that would be very difficult to pull off.

    We often refer to this incident in Oklahoma as to what can happen if these things do ignite. Basically very fast projectile fire bombs.

    https://www.oklahoman.com/article/1942053/tulsa-gas-business-explodes-br-nearby-homes-burned-but-no-injuries-reported

    There are videos – I just cannot find them at the moment. It happened right next to what appeared to be an interstate.

    Basically, if for whatever reason those big tanks in the hospital parking lots quit being filled, Lord have mercy. They do not even have enough bottles on standby inside to even begin to cover the needs.

     
    1. Bob

      No, oxygen is NOT EXPLOSIVE.

      Oxygen can and does vigorously accelerate combustion sometimes to the point of an explosion – see Sprengel explosives.

      This is why the pads upon which the LOX tanks sit are concrete rather than asphalt. Asphalt being a combustible petroleum product.

      And it curious that there is a shortage liquid of Nitrogen.
      Although my understanding maybe dated, the classic method of generating liquid oxygen, liquid nitrogen, and other sundry gases (argon, neon, Xeon) is to compress ambient air (the air we breathe), liquify the compressed air, and then fractionally distill it. Since ambient air is some 60% to 70% nitrogen it would be expected that an air plant would produce many times as much nitrogen as oxygen.

       
      1. IM Doc

        I get the impression from talking to these distributors that there is no issue in compressing gas. It is mainly a matter of the fact that the containers going back and forth have reached a standstill because of a lack of trucking. They have limited supplies of stuff to put the new product. They are apparently working on this issue very diligently and hopefully this will all work out.

        So many of our issues right now seem to be related to a sudden lack of trained truckers. I have not heard a good explanation for this yet.

        FYI I have had more than one patient in my life smoking while on a cannula of oxygen. Maybe explosive is not the best word but I guarantee you it is flammable. And those cans in Oklahoma did not just launch on their own.

CH

Companies have been forcing working-class Americans to pee in a cup (i.e. randomized drug testing) for decades. The only recourse was the same as it is for anti-vaxxers today: if you don’t like it, don’t take the job or quit.

Now…NOW…the right-wingers are all concerned about “individual freedoms” at work. Give me a f—ing break! Political grandstanding of the highest order.

As for the Catholics, the Pope himself has been vaccinated, so it seems that would have been a much more rational line of argument: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58573892

 
  1. IM Doc

    With all due respect, being injected with any pharmaceutical and peeing in a cup are two entirely different issues.

    Peeing in a cup does not typically require informed consent and signing a document stating that the process has not been approved and the risks are as yet unknown – which was going on all over America by the millions for months earlier this year.

    For the first time in my life, the risks and benefits counseling of people’s own physicians, familiar with their own medical issues, was replaced by TV doctors with who knows what agenda and conducted in parking lots or stadiums. And all this with an agent which at the time and still even now had not gone through all the usual rigors of trials.

    It is interesting you should bring up that topic of peeing in a cup. While these vaccine mandates are now all the rage, every other want-ad in my local paper is screaming that no drug testing is required.

    We do indeed live in a very interesting time.

  1. Marie

    I’ll add in my observations about what has been happening in my neck of the woods.
    I’m an ER Doctor in a community hospital in Canada.
    In the past month we’ve had shortages or outright disappearances of the following equipment:
    Crutches
    Knee Braces
    Plaster Slabs
    The paper sheets we line beds with for hygienic reasons (completely disappeared on my last shift)
    We are also hemorrhaging nurses. I used to know all the faces in my department, and most of the names, and could accommodate and get to know a new face. Now when I walk into work I don’t recognize half the nurses I’m working with – the new folks are a mix of agency (temp) nurses and new grads. This has lead to more medical errors, as it’s difficult for our department to integrate THIS many new folks at once. Also even with their help (and don’t get me wrong, I’m VERY grateful they are here), we are still routinely short 5-6 nurses per shift. The attrition seems to be due to a mix of early retirements, burnout and transfer to other departments, and firings due to the vaccine mandate.
    We are also getting slammed due to increased patient volumes – a percentage of family doctors in the community are still not seeing their patients in person, and not all patients are okay with totally virtual care or they are being sent in by their MDs who think the patient needs a physical exam but won’t do it themselves.
    My question is – what is truly worse: having a nurse who *may* be at increased risk of transmitting Covid because they are unvaccinated, or having no nurse at all?

     
    1. IM Doc

      Myself and my partner make no bones about seeing any patient that comes in the door. I do virtual visits only if the patient requests it.

      There are a couple docs in my community who just will not see people in person. You cannot even imagine the number of transfers that my partner and I have had.

      The problem though is that eventually the brick wall is hit – you just simply cannot keep it up.

      There is a massive shortage of PCPs in this country. And I suppose in Canada too. There is this big huge push to get nurse practitioners to fill the void. Hysterically, the NPs too avoid primary care like the plague and most of them end up in oncology, ortho, GI or cardiology or general surgery.

      The PCP crisis we have been working on for decades that this pandemic has brought to the forefront has just now started to seriously implode.

      And do not get me started on ER docs. God bless em. Just months ago – the venture capitalist firms in the USA that own the group ER practices were laying off the docs right and left. Everyone in America should remember this fact when they go to an ER and take in the just unbelievable chaos. I hope your lot in life in Canada is much better.

Tom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80OvNaEgmmw

Michael Mina is an immunologist, epidemiologist, and physician at Harvard. This guy makes so much sense. His position: rapid tests should be widely available and used all the time and everywhere. Not as sensitive as PCR tests, but very accurate if a person is carrying a high enough viral load to be infectious.

We’re doing it all wrong.

You can also find the interview wherever you get your podcasts.

 
  1. IM Doc

    I could not agree with this doctor more.

    100%.

    And we have the technology and the capability. Since we are arguing about trillions of dollars here and trillions there – we surely have the finances.

    Accurate? Reliable 100%? – until the vaccines are 100% reliable at stopping spread – why are we even having this debate. If the tests are even 70-80% effective – that is good enough to make a huge dent in the spread.

    And certainly, this approach of mass testing would have years of public health behind it. And if presented correctly to the public, I feel strongly would be accepted in no time. Unlike the vaccine mandates which have no basis in previous public health and may lead to serious social problems.

    But we no longer do anything in this country based on common sense. That is a different timeline to which none of us are a part.

Verifyfirst

Vaccine mandates have no basis in previous public health? Kids have to have lots of vaccines in order to be allowed into school don’t they?

 
  1. IM Doc

    Yes – you are correct.

    However – you are talking about vaccines that have gone through all the appropriate trials and the risks and benefits are known – and the benefits of preventing epidemics of very lethal infections are overwhelming. And because the safety is known there is widespread trust.

    As I have repeatedly stated, I have ordered tens of thousands of vaccines in my lifetime.

    We have not had near the time or ability to completely assess this situation with the COVID vaccines. And certainly with what we know about the COVID vaccines now, there is really no big benefits for “public health” in general. There is enormous benefit for individual patients that are at high risk and I have spent inordinate amount of my time trying to convince these people to go for it.

    In the vaccinated, it appears the contagion can be spread and caught likely just as easily as in the unvaccinated. Therefore, the risks and benefits are all on the individual side and not on the community side. This is completely different than in most of the childhood vaccines which lead us to sterilization and decreased spread to zero. Our COVID vaccines currently will be able to do no such thing. We can greatly impact high-risk individual lives with these vaccines and we should all be trying to do that – but impacting the course of spread in a vast population is much different with these COVID vaccines than say with measles. It is unfortunately simply not going to work that way until/if we get better vaccines.

    If the COVID vaccines worked like the measles vaccine, we would not be having all the discussion about “protecting the vaccinated” would we? If they worked like they were early on promised, the vaccinated would not have to worry for a second about the unvaccinated. The consequences and problems would theoretically all be on the unvaccinated. We can behave that way with certainty with the measles and mumps vaccines with just microscopic levels of breakthrough. But the COVID vaccines offer no such protection. I applaud anyone who gets vaccinated – especially those in higher risk situations. I spend large amounts of my day every day doing just that. But given the way these were sold, and given what has occurred, I blame no one for being hesitant. It is my job to convince those high-risk to overcome their doubts. But demonizing anyone who has concerns and having them fired is just completely inappropriate.

    I really do wish Rachel Maddow and Tucker Carlson and Chris Cuomo and even Dr. Wen and Dr. Fauci could spend just one day with me – and see what all the confusion and chaos has wrought in the minds and souls of my patients. I really do.

    Public health has no business mandating these for individuals in this situation. Heart disease and strokes have killed more people than COVID this year – but you do not hear the public health authorities mandating that every adult take LIPITOR. Why not?

    It is because coercion simply does not work in these situations. Coercion often severely coalesces resistance. Look around you. Much research has been done on this in the past. Just look at Dr. Fauci’s take on coercion and vaccine mandates from just last autumn before the vaccines arrived. What he said then and what he is saying now cannot both be true. (Of course when looking for that link, I was able to find 3 different contradictory things he has said about vaccines in the past year). There has been no sudden sea change in decades of public health research. And what he said last autumn had years of public health research and wisdom behind it. He appropriately exempted from his statement last year Health Care workers (and I would add the military) – which are not at all “the public” in public health.

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