Nov. 2nd, 2021

IM doc pt20

Nov. 2nd, 2021 04:24 pm
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The long, continuing series of comments from IM Doc at the naked capitalism site... this first feature just mentions him and references an email he shared with one of the site's writers.

From Tragedy to Hesitancy: How Public Health Failures Boosted COVID-19 Vaccine Scepticism

Yves here. This post confirms what IM Doc has been saying for some time. For instance, via e-mail in April:

As a young child, I saw my father [a public health officer] struggle through the Swine Flu of 1976 and the vaccine debacle that accompanied that era.

As I grew older, and especially once I entered medicine, he had several heart-to-heart talks with me about a career in Medicine and by extension public health. I can summarize what he told me in two large thrusts. 1) Integrity, truth, and honesty is EVERYTHING in public pealth. Once squandered, it will never return. 2) Public health is 10% science and 90% psychology. Do not ever forget that. You will get nowhere by screaming SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENCE and you will certainly get nowhere by flashing credentials. And you must have an acute awareness of panic, fear and anxiety. They change everything and your response must always take that into account.

Here, initial Covid failures and the elite pretense that they could just carry on as if that were a thing of the past, as opposed to admit to the errors and discuss how they planned to do better going forward, has exacted a price in terms of trust, as this post below explains.

By Geraldine Blanchard-Rohner, Senior Pediatrician and Immunologist, University Hospital Geneva; Bruno Caprettini,SNF Ambizione Fellow, Department of Economics, University of Zurich; Dominic Rohner, Professor of Economics, University of Lausanne; CEPR Research Fellow; and Hans-Joachim Voth, UBS Professor of Macroeconomics and Financial Markets, Department of Economics, Zurich University. Originally published at VoxEU

As COVID-19 vaccination programmes accelerate across the industrialised world, vaccination hesitancy is rapidly emerging as a key challenge. This column explores the relationship between pre-pandemic intensive care unit capacity and attitudes towards the COVID-19 vaccine in the UK. Despite widespread pre-pandemic scepticism about vaccines in general, willingness to become vaccinated against COVID-19 overall was strikingly high, even amongst those who rejected vaccines before the pandemic. The results point to a surprising synergy: where the emergency care systems of public healthcare providers were less strained during the early days of the COVID-19 epidemic, vaccination hesitancy is systematically less today.

Since February 2020, the COVID-19 pandemic has cost millions of lives and has affected almost every aspect of economic, social, and cultural life – from stock markets to inflation, schooling, inequality, and the gender division of labour, to name but a few (Yeyati and Filippini 2021, Burgess and Sievertsen 2020, Baldwin and Weder di Mauro 2020, Capelle-Blancard and Desroziers 2020, Sevilla and Smith 2020). Infection rates surged around the globe, and medical systems came under increasing strain.

In recent months, vaccination programmes have accelerated across the industrialised world. With supply problems increasingly solved, vaccination hesitancy is rapidly emerging as a key challenge on the path to herd immunity (Troiano and Nardi 2021, Dror et al. 2020). Given the high infectiousness of new variants, vaccine take-up amongst adults will have to reach particularly high levels for COVID-19 to be brought under control.

Our new study offers novel lessons about the drivers of vaccine hesitancy (Blanchard-Rohner et al. 2021). A previously overlooked factor can be crucial, namely, the efficiency and success of public healthcare provision during the pandemic. When the pandemic first broke out, intensive care units (ICUs) in many countries and regions were quickly overwhelmed, resulting in high mortality rates.

Using newly collected survey data from the UK, we show that success in providing emergency care during the dramatic initial phase of the pandemic is a powerful predictor of people’s readiness to receive the COVID-19 vaccine. Where the NHS was quickly overwhelmed, with overcrowded ICUs and high COVID-19 fatality rates, the willingness to become vaccinated is markedly lower.

Our findings suggest that there is an important, neglected synergy between an effective healthcare response in the early phases of a pandemic and the public’s trust and willingness to use novel treatments like the new COVID-19 vaccines.

We conducted two waves of interviews about vaccination attitudes in a nationally representative sample in the UK – in the autumn of 2019, before the pandemic; and in April 2020, during the first wave. We interviewed the same respondents, which allowed us to track changes in attitudes over time. These changes we then correlate with the quality and effectiveness of emergency care in different areas of the UK. In total, we had 1,653 respondents in the first wave, of which 1,194 participated in the second wave.

Respondents included a sizeable share of vaccine ‘hesitants’ and respondents who outright reject vaccinations – participants who in the fall of 2009 had declared that it was better for children not to receive vaccines, or that vaccines cause severe adverse effects including autism. We estimate that 12% of respondents reject vaccinations altogether and another 36% are sceptical. Only 52% of participants were strongly positive about the effects of vaccines in general prior to the pandemic.

Despite this widespread vaccination scepticism, willingness to become vaccinated against COVID-19 overall was strikingly high – some 85% of study participants said that they were definitely or probably willing to become vaccinated. Remarkably, even amongst those who reject vaccines or are hesitant, 55–81% are willing to participate in COVID-19 vaccinations (Figure 1).

Figure 1 COVID-19 vaccine acceptance and general vaccine attitudes

Source: Blanchard-Rohner et al. (2021)
Notes: The figure shows responses to the question: “If a vaccine against COVID-19 became available for everyone tomorrow, do you think you would or would not get vaccinated?” The bar on the left reports the breakdown for all respondents of the April 2020 survey (N = 1194). The other 3 columns report the breakdown for three categories of respondents: “no vax” (N = 148), “hesitants” (N = 431) and “pro vac” (N = 615). We assign respondents to one of these categories using ther answers to the question on general vaccination attitudes. See Section S.2 in the Supplementary Materials for details on the construction of these categories.

Several interpretations of this fact are possible. Vaccination sceptics may feel that most diseases against which vaccines are routinely used are not terribly harmful; faced with a potentially deadly illness, they change their mind. Alternatively, sceptics may have updated their beliefs in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic, with 24/7 media coverage of the disease, its consequences, and the need for a vaccine.

Our second main finding involves the role of public health provision. Before the arrival of vaccines, the availability of ICU capacity was a key determinant of mortality – where intensive care beds were missing, death rates spiked. We exploit the fact that various areas of England had different pre-COVID-19 levels of ICU coverage. This, in turn, meant that NHS hospitals in some areas ‘ran out of road’ much faster than others once the pandemic hit.

When we examine simple correlations, we find that low ICU capacity during the first wave of the pandemic is associated with lower vaccination willingness. This is not a result of pre-existing attitudes but a direct consequence of how vaccination hesitancy changed during the pandemic.

Panel A of Figure 2 plots vaccine hesitancy against ICU occupancy rates in February 2020, before the UK saw its first major spike in cases. The higher pre-crisis capacity usage, the greater hesitancy was by April 2020. In other words, where exogenous variation in ICU demand pre-epidemic had reduced spare capacity in ICU units, the pandemic struck harder.

Figure 2 ICU availability, perceived risk and unwillingness to get vaccinated against COVID-19

Source: Blanchard-Rohner et al. (2021)

This failure to provide effective support was not a result of structural under-provision in certain areas. No such pattern is visible if we use, say, ICU occupancy half a year earlier (October 2019), strengthening the case for a causal interpretation of our finding. Figure 3 gives an impression of the variation in ICU occupancy across Britain on the eve of the pandemic’s first wave, in February 2020.

Panel B of Figure 2 shows the same exercise for different groups, and after controlling for observables. We find positive effects throughout. The analogous pattern is visible if we use the number of ICU beds per 1,000 inhabitants as an indicator of public health resources.

Figure 3 Variation in ICU occupation across Britain in February 2020

Source: Using data from Blanchard-Rohner et al. (2021).

Policy Implications

At first pass, many observers could think that public health resources like ICU capacity and vaccination campaigns are substitutes – countries with high capacity to deal with severe cases might be able to cope with lower rates of vaccination take-up. However, our results point to a surprising synergy: where the emergency care systems of public healthcare providers were less strained during the early days of the COVID-19 epidemic, vaccination hesitancy is systematically less today.

While generally high rates of support for vaccination make it more likely that herd immunity can be reached, our findings suggest that generous provision of spare emergency capacity can generate additional benefits, in the form of the public’s greater willingness to become vaccinated.

See original post for references

Carla

This link to a fascinating interview with Pierre Kory, M.D. has been posted on NC already. Since it’s a 2-1/2 hour video, for those who don’t have time to watch the whole thing, I repeat the link here to call attention to a portion of it starting just after the 59 minute mark in which Kory describes the test-and-treat protocol using ivermectin in Mexico. Truly impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn_b4NRTB6k

  1. IM Doc

    I have just finished listening to this entire presentation.

    It reminded me of what the science of medicine was when I was younger. I really long for those days. When medicine was not controlled by desk jockeys in Boston and DC – but was under the command of the shock troops on the ground.

    I think this is very important for us all to llsten to. I would especially recommend the first 30 miinutes or so. A very piercing discussion of the entire concept of “evidence-based” medicine and how the use of that “science” is largely responsible for the mess we are in today.

    Basically, the use of algorithms that are now required by the corporate overlords vs. the experience that comes from a lifetime of medicine. I would call it the art vs. the science of medicine. But, as this discussion demonstrates – there is often not a lot of science in what we call “evidence-based” medicine these days.

    “Evidence-based” medicine sounds wonderful. In real-life experience, it is anything but. It has become a system of manipulated data and evidence used so practitioners can be more easily turned into drones by Big Hospital, Big Pharma, and Big Medicine.

a discussion about understanding statistics that get shared with the public (and the way percentages manipulate information):

  1. Laura in So Cal

    On this:
    “WA: “Almost all new COVID cases in King Co. are from unvaccinated people, experts say” [KOMO]. “The good news: cases and hospitalizations are dramatically down since the peak of the 4th wave in late April. The bad news: 97% of the new Covid-19 cases—are coming from unvaccinated people.””

    I’m not sure you can trust this kind of data anymore with the updated guidance from the CDC as of May 1st.

    From the CDC website:

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

    “As of May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases to focus on identifying and investigating only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause. This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance.”

    So if someone is vaccinated and tests positive, they aren’t counted as a COVID case unless they are hospitalized or die. You will only have 2 kinds of COVID cases. 1. Any positive test from an unvaccinated person or 2. A vaccinated person who is hospitalized or dies which should be unusual if the vaccines work as advertised.

    1. Lemmy Caution

      Right — the CDC is leaving it up to the states to decide whether or not they test and track vaccinated people who come down with mild or asymptomatic Covid. And the KOMO article never defines what constitutes a new case among unvaccinated people. Is it just people that are hospitalized or die, or does it also include asymptomatic and mild cases? Are we comparing apples to apples or what? Another fine example of at best, sloppy reporting. At the worst? Fitting the facts around a desired narrative.

    2. t

      Thank you for pointing this out. The US insistence of redefining “pandemic” at every turn…. that’s the one weird trick that really did us in.

      1. The Rev Kev

        Not just the US. Last year when the Coronavirus was starting to rage, not only did the WHO refuse to call it a pandemic, but they actually removed the word ‘pandemic’ from their official lexicon that they used. Several weeks later they re-instated it and then came out and called it a pandemic but that was nothing short of criminal behaviour that. Totally unforgivable.

    3. Lemmy Caution

      The article never comes out and says what the actual number of new cases is either.

      Looking at the King County Covid Dashboard, yesterday, June 2, there were no new hospitalizations and no new deaths.

      The 7-day averages of both hospitalizations and deaths are also rapidly falling: Hospitalizations dropping from 9 or 10 per day on 5/27 to zero yesterday and the 7-day average for deaths at about .6.

      Not to say new cases aren’t worrisome, but the article leaves out a lot of facts.

    4. IM Doc

      I am also always on the lookout for manipulation when any statistical information in presented as a percentage. (a 97% drop, etc). That is how statistics can be easily manipulated.

      Please note – this article and many others does exactly that. I would feel much better if just plain raw numbers were reported.

      Look through the ads of any Big Pharma marketing campaign. You will note instantly that everything is reported in %. There is a reason for that.

  1. Laura in So Cal

    On this:
    “WA: “Almost all new COVID cases in King Co. are from unvaccinated people, experts say” [KOMO]. “The good news: cases and hospitalizations are dramatically down since the peak of the 4th wave in late April. The bad news: 97% of the new Covid-19 cases—are coming from unvaccinated people.””

    I’m not sure you can trust this kind of data anymore with the updated guidance from the CDC as of May 1st.

    From the CDC website:

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

    “As of May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases to focus on identifying and investigating only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause. This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance.”

    So if someone is vaccinated and tests positive, they aren’t counted as a COVID case unless they are hospitalized or die. You will only have 2 kinds of COVID cases. 1. Any positive test from an unvaccinated person or 2. A vaccinated person who is hospitalized or dies which should be unusual if the vaccines work as advertised.

    1. Lemmy Caution

      Right — the CDC is leaving it up to the states to decide whether or not they test and track vaccinated people who come down with mild or asymptomatic Covid. And the KOMO article never defines what constitutes a new case among unvaccinated people. Is it just people that are hospitalized or die, or does it also include asymptomatic and mild cases? Are we comparing apples to apples or what? Another fine example of at best, sloppy reporting. At the worst? Fitting the facts around a desired narrative.


      1. The Rev Kev

        Not just the US. Last year when the Coronavirus was starting to rage, not only did the WHO refuse to call it a pandemic, but they actually removed the word ‘pandemic’ from their official lexicon that they used. Several weeks later they re-instated it and then came out and called it a pandemic but that was nothing short of criminal behaviour that. Totally unforgivable.

    2. Lemmy Caution

      The article never comes out and says what the actual number of new cases is either.

      Looking at the King County Covid Dashboard, yesterday, June 2, there were no new hospitalizations and no new deaths.

      The 7-day averages of both hospitalizations and deaths are also rapidly falling: Hospitalizations dropping from 9 or 10 per day on 5/27 to zero yesterday and the 7-day average for deaths at about .6.

      Not to say new cases aren’t worrisome, but the article leaves out a lot of facts.

    3. IM Doc

      I am also always on the lookout for manipulation when any statistical information in presented as a percentage. (a 97% drop, etc). That is how statistics can be easily manipulated.

      Please note – this article and many others does exactly that. I would feel much better if just plain raw numbers were reported.

      Look through the ads of any Big Pharma marketing campaign. You will note instantly that everything is reported in %. There is a reason for that.

TMR

Re: uptick in Texas – it’s A/C season. Buildings have been designed for the past 50 years to have as much recirculating air as possible (to keep electricity costs down). Businesses are certainly not going to retrofit without a mandate, and the state government won’t be doing that any time soon.

You can see the wave of last summer start at nearly the same time.

IM Doc

Yes – I just looked at the admittedly scattered data from last summer. Remember the first big surge went through the mid-South states like TX, OK, KS and ARK in the summer.

The day of the first noticeable uptick in Texas in 2020 – was actually June the 13th – led by Harris County (Houston) and Bexar County (San Antonio). But we must realize the uptick in 2020 was from a much higher baseline of case numbers. I do not know what counties are involved in this uptick now.

It appears that we are right on time – and it will also be very interesting to see how this goes over the next few weeks. In 2020 – slight upticks in June led to big case numbers in AUG and SEPT in Texas and OK.

As I have been saying all along – the real test for the vaccines is coming. We should hold our breath and cross our fingers. Another factor is there is absolutely much more natural immunity in the population right now – so there is likely to be much less of explosive parabolic increases in case numbers. It would also be very interesting to note a) if these case increases right now are variants and if so which ones and b) what is the rate of occurrence in vaccinated vs non-vaccinated and c) how symptomatic are the patients if at all – Alas, the CDC and health departments are doing absolutely no surveillance like this at all.

Only time will tell.

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RE: ESCAPING INTO BRITISH HUMOR IS THE PERFECT BALM Crime Reads. I adore Wodehouse, not only for the laughs and the madcap plots but also for his limpid prose.

IM Doc says:

IM Doc

A few thoughts on the links today –

First – on the very first one about Wodehouse and Jerome – there is this quote at the very end of the article:

I’ll end with some timely advice from Jerome K. Jerome: “Eat good dinners and drink good wine; read good novels if you have the leisure and see good plays; fall in love, if there is no reason why you should not fall in love; but do not pore over influenza statistics.”

That one made me do a lot of self reflection on this Friday AM.

On to the link about the 226 myocarditis patients so far in the USA.

With phrases like “fully recovered” in the CDC press statements – I can feel and sense the coverup from Big Pharma and their captivated agencies already happening.

I have been an internist for 3 decades – I would like to share with everyone my experience with myocarditis patients to make sure there is clarity – this is not going to be a one and done kind of thing – this will be with us for some time.

When I was young, the patients of the pre-antibiotic era were just becoming elderly. During their youth, there were bacterial infections that rather commonly affected the heart valves, the pericardium, or the heart muscle itself – either the bug itself or the inflammation. These issues are unheard of today with antibiotics but it was not unusual then. I got to be involved in the tail end of that lifelong process for several patients – these patients were not well – they suffered from heart failure symptoms, valve failure and pericardial issues for their whole life – not to mention the spectre of rhythm problems at any time.

The point being – once the heart is infected or inflamed like this, it is scarred – and that is for life. Almost all of them will eventually have heart failure, rhythm problems or both. And it may take decades to develop.

I am afraid this vaccine phenomenon will be no different. I have seen several patients in my life with post-partum myocarditis – thought to be an immune issue – and I have seen several with lupus and other inflammatory issues. Actual viral or vaccine related myocarditis is vanishingly rare – and I want to reiterate that to the heavens. This occurrence we are seeing now is absolutely related to something the vaccine is doing to our young men – we just do not know what it is happening yet.

Big Pharma will tell us they have “fully recovered”. THIS IS A LIE. These patients never fully recover. Their athletic abilities will be diminished. Many will face a middle age filled with heart failure and rhythm problems. I am going to predict right now that we as a country are going to see an uptick in “athletes dropping dead on the football field” issues over the next 10 years. The Big Pharma marketers are in overdrive right now trying to minimize this. I feel it is my obligation to inform people the best way I know.

The CDC is reporting only 226 cases – please note – that this is just in the 18 and ups that have already been vaccinated. These do not represent the cases in teenagers which we just started vaccinating in the past month. These are only the 20 and 30 something young men over the past 2 months. My old academic center in a major metro area – has had dozens of cases already. I bring that up because if you multiply that out for the whole USA – there are assuredly way more than 226. This is a reflection of our broken reporting system.

More troubling to me – I READ ABOUT THIS PROBLEM FROM ISRAEL 2 months ago. IF I READ ABOUT, YOU CAN BE ASSURED THE CDC and FDA KNEW ALL ABOUT IT. AND YET NOT A THING WAS DONE – NOT A WORD SAID. The corruption, dissembling and lies are just simply breathtaking.

The CDC has described this as an “emergency” meeting. Indeed – if it is truly being dealt with as an “emergency” – their asses should be in session today – but yet – we are waiting for an entire week.

There is every indication that the younger we go – the more likely this will happen. It occurs after the 2nd dose. And we are just now 5 days into the 2nd dose for the 12-15 years age cohort. I just checked – there are already SEVEN cases of heart issues in the VAERS for this age group.

Folks, this is as concerning as it gets. From my very first guest post in December – I discussed unforeseen problems and how the vaccines had not been tested. More concerning, I discussed the complete corruption of the members of the FDA advisory committee. They truly are in the pockets of Big Pharma.

The numbers simply do not make sense for anyone under 20 to be vaccinated until we have much better information. This is ESPECIALLY TRUE of those who already have had COVID or positive antibodies. Increasingly, research is showing they are just as protected in that status as with the vaccines.

These universities that are forcing this on these kids are literally playing with fire. As of this week, I have been warning anybody in that age group as patients and any parents NOT to take the vaccine at this time. My profession must begin behaving in the interest of the patients and not Big Pharma or all will be lost.

    1. Yves Smith

      Short version from IM Doc:

      Yes – this is a method which coronaviruses – use to become more successful. This is also common in many other virus families.

      KLG provided more comprehensive take:

      Supercells? Nothing new here. Many viruses cause the formation of multinucleate syncytia. The mechanism can be summarized as follows:

      During infection and subsequent intracellular replication and assembly of the virus, viral proteins are produced in the host cell.
      Some of these are viral envelope (membrane) glycoproteins; these can be fusion proteins that mediate the interaction of intact virus with target cells. Not all of these proteins end up in mature virus particles. Some are trafficked to the plasma membrane of the host cell in the normal pathway (endoplasmic reticulum, Golgi, trans-Golgi network, plasma membrane). Two adjacent cells with virus fusion proteins on their surface can fuse through the interaction of these proteins. As virus is produced in these and other cells, more and more cells can fuse and form multinucleated giant syncitia).
      This is not novel to coronaviruses. Sometimes these syncytia can facilitate spread of the virus from cell to cell.

      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682206000626?via%3Dihub
      Good illustration in Figure 7.

      And GM:

      Yes, this is a key mechanism of pathogenesis, higher infecitivtiy and of immune evasion.

      It is also the key mutation in the Indian variants – B.1.617.1, B.1.617.2, and B.1.617.3, of which B.1.617.2 happens to have the most optimal set of additional mutations to make it supercontagious.

      The virus is not after our cells, it is after our ribosomes and NTP pools. There is no requirement for it to infect our cells one by one to get to those ribosomes and NTP pools, if it had a way to spread without going through the traditional pathway of making viral particles in one cell that then infect other cells, it could exploit that.

      And since this is a virus that has a lipid membrane, it has such a way — the infected cells have the S protein on the surface, the same way it is on the surface of the virus, and it can mediate fusion with neighboring cells that have the ACE2 receptor.

      And then both cells are under the control of the virus. But it does not end with one cell — you can agglomerate hundreds of cells that way.

      What happened in the Indian variants is that the polybasic furin-cleavage site gained an extra arginine R and became even more basic — that’s the P681R mutation (it’s right before the 4-aa FCS, which is now a 5-aa FCS). This, BTW, had been kind of already seen in the British B.1.1.7 — it had a P681H mutation, and histidine is also a basic amino acid, but arginine is even more basic. So now syncitium formation is greatly enhanced. This was the key result of the first preprint studying B.1.617.2 back in late April and the grave implications were immediately obvious.

      One of which was that this could be immune evasive even if it did not have the RBD mutations. Because antibodies will not do much against syncitium spread. And indeed, there was another preprint recently that studied this directly, and that is what is observed — antibodies are powerless against syncitia.

      Another is that this will be much more harmful — wherever this infects, it will make syncitia, occasionally merging even different cell types and wreaking total havoc on organs through severe cellular damage.

      Yet another is that this should be wrecking the immune system even more than the original virus was already doing — what probably happens (it has not been fully demonstrated yet but there are strong indications in that direction) is that lymphocytes arrive at the site of infection and then get engulfed by the syncitia, and die inside them. The mucormycosis cases in India are explained right now by the virus attacking beta cells in the pancreas, leading to diabetes, and that is probably indeed a strong component, but one can’t help but think that there has to be stronger direct immune deficiency induced by the virus itself because not everyone that shows up with a fungus eating his face is diabetic.

One peach of a comment

fumo

The details given by Hancock last week were out of a sample of roughly 120 patients, only 3 had been double jabbed. The main US/EU approved vaccines are all remarkably effective, I’m not sure where the factual basis for all the consternation about vaccine efficacy is being hidden but I can’t find it. There is no significant number of cases of previously healthy double-jabbed patients being hospitalized, as much as the ideologically “vaccine skeptical/hesitant” may want to believe otherwise.

Vaccination is the only path out of the pandemic, any other path will inevitably leave the population exposed and vulnerable to wave after wave ad infinitum.

got this response from IM Doc

IM Doc

I have multiple problems with your statement above.

First and foremost, in medical history – vaccinations are not the only way out of a pandemic. This is very faulty Big Pharma Claptrap. And conflating vaccine histories in different virus families with different pathogenesis is really not a good approach. Even with the POLIO vaccines – it took almost a decade before Dr. Salk proclaimed victory – and that was after many more hundreds of thousands had been maimed or killed. And please note polio is still around and actually making a small comeback – DESPITE the massive worldwide vaccination drives.

Smallpox, measles and polio ( our big success stories with vaccines) are very different from coronaviruses – and generalizing statements about “vaccinating out of a pandemic” should never be made. It is literally apples and oranges. Ask any veterinarian how successful vaccination has been on animal coronavirus pandemics – and you may begin to play a different tune. Maybe this technology is different maybe not – but it is impossible to tell when the authorities are not even counting cases correctly. And it is inappropriately early to be making such statements.

Secondly, I, as a PCP, have now lost count of how many completely vaccinated patiients in the past few weeks/months have been positive for COVID after their vaccines. They are just no longer being counted. How convenient. And this is the way it is being presented in the media – no matter how wrong-headed it is. It is very clear to me here on the ground that these vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity as the majority of our others do. What that means going forward we will soon find out. But doing victory laps at this stage of the game is almost imbecile. As to your hospitalization point, just like last summer, here in my local area – we are starting to see a drip drip drip of COVID hospitalizations – and though small in number – every single one last week was fully vaccinated. We are already seeing in some parts of the country – looking right at southern Texas – that vaccinated patients are indeed being hospitalized. And it happens to be going on in the UK at a very surprising rate. Indeed, if one looks closely at the numbers coming out of the UK – the VACCINATED have a higher chance of dying right now, even though the death rate is very very low.

I have stated repeatedly – and will state again. The real test for these vaccines is coming up in the next few months. As “vaccinated” Chile is finding out right now – the winter is really harsh – and if we can get through the fall and winter months here in America without a huge surge – then I will feel much more confidently that the vaccines have worked. Until that time – I believe strongly that end zone dancing is completely inappropriate

Katniss Everdeen

RE: A judge dismisses Houston hospital workers’ lawsuit about vaccine mandates. NYT

Didn’t want to sign up so read the hill instead: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/558173-judge-dismisses-staff-lawsuit-against-houston-methodist-vaccine-mandate?rl=1

The suit further alleged that the vaccines were experimental and dangerous and that being forced to get vaccinated violated federal law.

In a five-page order on Saturday, Hughes largely debunked the plaintiff’s arguments. But the judge specifically blasted the plaintiffs for equating the vaccine mandate to forced experimentation during the Holocaust.

So, we have our first taste of how “the courts” will treat the EUA. They will ignore it.

Once again, from the fda itself, with gusto:

FDA must ensure that recipients of the vaccine under an EUA are informed, to the extent practicable given the applicable circumstances, that FDA has authorized the emergency use of the vaccine, of the known and potential benefits and risks, the extent to which such benefits and risks are unknown, that they have the option to accept or refuse the vaccine, and of any available alternatives to the product. Typically, this information is communicated in a patient “fact sheet.” The FDA posts these fact sheets on our website.

I’ve no idea why the plaintiffs gave the judge a holocaust strawman to “debunk,” but apparently they did. This particular article made no mention of whether the judge “debunked” the EUA statute itself, but I guess it’s somewhere in the ground covered by the word “largely.”

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

  1. Yves Smith

    This is really appalling. I had mistakenly and incorrectly been confident that the clear “voluntary” language in the EUA and past rulings would have made this a no-brainer for the courts. But the EEO backing this is a big factor, at least for some judges, who tend to feel the Executive needs to be given at least a certain amount of deference.

    Other problem is I have seen a lot of anti-vax suits. They have been horrible horrible horrible. Most first year law students could make a better case. They tend to make political arguments and not focus enough (or at all!) on legal issues. The Holocaust overreach/distraction is very typical for that crowd.

    So I bet a contributing factor is they were referred to an anti-vax lawyer, which would lead to additional prejudice by the judge (as in the plaintiff had a stealth or explicit anti-vax agenda, or that was inferred through their choice of counsel, and also colored how the judge viewed the case. Even if the filing presented the plaintiff as vaccine-supporting for established vaccines, the judge could have read it as the anti-vaxxers finding a sympathetic plaintiff to advance their agenda).

    1. Laura in So Cal

      What also bothers me is the employers refusal to accept any liability for this. I saw some language from OSHA that initially said that vaccine side effects etc. would be considered a workplace injury if the vaccine was a job requirements (and theoretically covered by Workers Compensation), but I think this was walked back?

      https://www.natlawreview.com/article/osha-revokes-guidance-recordability-covid-19-vaccine-reactions

      I think the same thing should be true of colleges, etc. If they require an EUA vaccine for admission, they should be on the hook for the costs of injury, disability, and/or death associated with the vaccines. But they aren’t of course.

    2. Aumua

      It looks like separating politically driven anti-vax sentiments from legitimate concerns about the safety and/or efficacy of the COVID vaccines is going to become increasingly difficult. There’s a lot of gray area and uncertainty right now on this topic, which is just the kind of opening that the far right anti-vax movement is looking for to effectively infiltrate the discussion space and push their agendas.

    3. Katniss Everdeen

      I shared your confidence. The statute is crystal clear. I thought the fda would at least concoct some sort of justification for grandfathering in the vaccines for “approval,” at least the mRNA ones, to preserve some semblance of legitimacy.

      Surely this will not stand on appeal, but I hope the plaintiffs get better representation next time–someone who knows how to narrow the issue and drop any extraneous agenda.

      This is really far to important to be left to amateurs.

    4. IM Doc

      This is from Texas – maybe that is part of the problem.

      Texas agencies and courts have a very long tradition of siding with the big hospital systems and bad doctors no matter how insane it is to do so.

      For example, the Dr. Death case – where it is crystal clear that the ball was egregiously dropped by the Baylor Health System in Dallas ( they could have stopped him in the tracks, instead they allowed him to get privileges at other hospitals by not spilling the beans, thinking they would be sued if they did). The AG of Texas prevented any of the dozens of patients from suing Baylor.

      That is just one example – I could go on and on and on.

      The courts and agencies in Texas are very very protective of the big hospital systems – no matter how egregious is the problem.

      I wonder if this would be any different in another state? I feel in my gut that Texas may not have been the best proving ground for this kind of case.

Vaccine Refusal in Trump Country Makes It a Sitting Duck for COVID Delta Variant Truthout

IM Doc

The truth out article above about Trump states being sitting ducks for Covid is highly inappropriate and verges on revenge porn.

I will reiterate again. I have just as many blue liberal folks in my world that are vaccine hesitant as I do red folks.

And fun fact – the past two weeks in my own practice, every single positive covid patient has been vaccinated. I have not had a single unvaccinated positive patient.

The testing and surveillance system for Covid has been recently turned into a big joke by the CDC and our health agencies. They are doing zero contact tracing on anyone who is vaccinated so who even knows what the numbers are and how well the vaccines are working. The jabs work so well and it is all so obvious that we are not going to even try.

The underlying concern for anyone with the will to be unbiased is that it for us out here in flyover country these vaccines are looking more and more everyday like they are Non Sterilizing. They make people less sick (we will soon see how long that lasts) but are not real good at stopping transmission. That is now obvious to me and many others. The numbers and patterns in our own patient cohorts are just too obvious. That pattern comes with its own set of issues and not a thing is being done about it at all. Again, we are not even trying.

Well as my grandma used to say – pride goeth before a fall. I can do what I can do in my own world. I continue to hope like everyone else that this is all going to work out well. And hopefully it will.

In the meantime, Someone really must tell these truthout types that they are writing based on profoundly tinkered data and coming to conclusions to please their audience that in the end are the words of blithering imbeciles.


the thread continues... and then...

  1. bassmule

    I dunno. Whose revenge? Wait for a Summer of Trump-sponsored super-spreader events, and then see how you feel about scolding people.

    1. Katniss Everdeen

      “…a Summer of Trump-sponsored super-spreader events…”

      O. M. G.

      Forget “long covid,” this, and the link on which IM Doc commented is what “long TDS” looks like.

      From the nyt link “A Momentous Day”:

      …The two governors [Newsom and Cuomo], both Democrats who are facing political difficulties, made their announcements at events that seemed more like rallies than news conferences.

      President Biden will host a 1,000 person gathering on July 4 on the South Lawn of the White House to celebrate the country’s continued return to normalcy. Mayor Bill de Blasio on Tuesday announced that the city would hold a parade on July 7 to honor front line and essential workers.

      Sports venues, bars, gyms and hair salons are open for business. Planes are being jammed full again and would-be travelers are breakin’ down the doors to get on.

      I’m glad you’ve finally emerged from the jungle to rejoin the “post-covid” world. Here’s the 411. The concept of Trump as craven, diabolical super-spreader served its purpose and has been abandoned. The “press” has moved on to desperately trying to preserve the fiction that Trump “lied” when he said that the virus came from a “lab in China.”

    2. IM Doc

      I would like to point out something that has really been bothering me for some time.

      And FYI – I am reporting this as a liberal-leaning Dem – which I have been for decades. Those days however may be rapidly coming to an end. I have tried hard to keep politics out of science and medicine where it most definitely does not belong. In medicine, the “who’s going to pay for it aspect” is most definitely in the political realm – all the stuff going on right now in our culture – absolutely not.

      Because of the absolute negligence of our federal agencies – CDC, etc, and our local health dept – there are entire groups of us practicing physicians out here in the country networking and doing our best to keep each other informed of what is going on. I also heavily keep in touch with my colleagues in my old residency program.

      Therefore, I am exposed to stories all over the country – like this one – which was just reported this week.

      There are literally dozens and dozens more of these stories from every state – that have been reported on the past few months.

      Anyone who thinks these vaccines are NON-STERILIZING – please read this story and explain your position to me. I AM ALL EARS – but spoiler alert – I have dozens more for you to explain away after this one.

      This is unlike the above referenced article in truthout – this is from a main-stream media outlet – NPR in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

      This type of presentation is profoundly common for these stories – and I want to point out to all the obvious problems and how the readers are instantly manipulated into the wrong conclusions. First of all – from the title alone – and then into the meat of the article – is all the rhubarb and Jesus talk – signaling to the Rachel Maddow crowd – that indeed – the rhubarbs are about to take it in the ass. THEY DESERVE IT. How dare anyone question these wonderful vaccines – a TRIUMPH of modern science? These readers will likely not make it past the first few sentences – and put their iPAD down and do a happy dance.

      But if you read to the end – you are told off-handedly – that SIXTY THREE PERCENT of those involved were vaccinated. Please note the comment earlier in the story that vaccination was optimal (we have to make ’em look as bad as possible).

      A self-respecting reporter – would ask – what percent of the vaccinated actually were positive? That 63% seems to be right in line with Fauci’s desire for herd immunity, what do you make of that? – AND MORE IMPORTANT FOR US ALL TO REALIZE – 63% vaccination rates are higher than any metro in the USA – and indeed per Dr. Fauci’s testimony, the staff of the CDC and NIH – and YET THIS STILL HAPPENED……

      None of these questions were reported….I happen to second hand know just a bit about this story – and I can tell you those questions were most assuredly asked – it is just THE ANSWERS DO NOT FIT THE NARRATIVE. So we just do not report it.

      My feeling is the MDs involved went AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE CDC and did contact tracing on every last person involved. And Oh MY GOD – AY CARUMBA – we actually have an outbreak. As is so common now (and the vaccines may be responsible) the involved are minimally symptomatic. However, and I agree – we have a leaky vaccine. And when that is going on – CONTACT TRACING AND QUARANTINE are vital. Is it really a good idea to have vaccinated positive patients wondering around a Kroger? I know I am old-fashioned, but I really think that is not in the best interest of public health – but the CDC and state health departments are just no longer interested. I really feel that not good things may be coming our way.

      Back to your point about the Trump super-spreader events. I am far less concerned about them – than I am about the anti-science, anti-logic attitudes of the mainstream media, our CDC, and the Rachel Maddow PMC types. They really are insufferably arrogant, are totally wrong – and do not have two neurons firing to even realize the danger they are exposing us all to.

      Just my two cents – from a liberal Dem.

FluffytheObeseCat

“….is it widespread knowledge that the Covid mRNA vaccines have caused more deaths and serious adverse events than all of the previous 70 vaccines that have been in use for 30 years, combined”

This needs a link or citation.

  1. Lemmy Caution

    Here is the point in a three-way discussion where Dr. Bret Weinstein, evolutionary biologist, Dr. Robert Malone, inventor of the mRNA vaccine technology, and Steve Kirsch, an entrepreneur who has been researching adverse reactions to COVID vaccines, discuss a graph depicting the explosion of serious adverse reactions reported in the VAERS system that coincide with the introduction of the Covid mRNA vaccines.
    Here is the same graph with supporting data and information, as posted on the openvaers.com site.

    1. Phillip Cross

      Be careful about putting too much weight on that VAERS number. Just because there is a report in there, it does not mean it was a confirmed as something actually caused by the vaccine.

      People die and develop illnesses all the time, vaccine or no. When you have a sample size of 150m of society’s most vulnerable people, you would expect all manner of horrible coincidental outcomes to happen.

      Since HHS tells us “VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences. Anyone can submit a report to VAERS, including parents and patients.”, many of these will get entered into VAERS because many people have been ‘shat up’ by torrential streams of disinformation and decided 2+2=7.

      Go ahead and report one yourself!

      1. IM Doc

        Thank you for the party line.

        IT IS A FEDERAL CRIME TO PUT ANYTHING FALSE INTO THAT SYSTEM. YOU ARE REMINDED REPEATEDLY DURING THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF DATA ENTRY.

        The issue is not the actual numbers – it is the sudden surge of exactly the same complications that can be very informative. The VAERS system has been critically important in the past for sussing out vaccine issues – most notably with Gardasil and shingles.

        I have been telling my patients who ask about VAERS some simple facts. The actual numbers of this or that problem are really not accurate. However, trends and comparisons to previous vaccines are critical. The death numbers and morbid complications are simply breathtakingly off the charts – and I think it is very very foolish to ignore that in this situation when appropriate testing has never been done on these vaccines.

        So, for example, it is crystal clear in the VAERS data that these vaccines are very problematic for pregnant women – very elevated miscarriage rates. Some Western countries with functional health agencies have banned their use in pregnancy. Not here of course.

        I was very happy to see this today in the MMWR –
        https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e2.htm?s_cid=mm7024e2_w

        They are lamenting the fact that less than 20% of pregnant patients are getting COVID vaccinated in USA.

        I, however, could not be more happy. It tells me there are legions of docs out in the real world paying attention – and guiding their patients safely.

        VAERS tells us that it is clearly risky to vaccinate pregnant women with these vaccines. The risks far outweigh the benefits. The trendlines for miscarriage compared to other vaccines in VAERS are awful.

        And here is the thing – if you think that it is just the patients reading the VAERS and being bamboozled – you are sadly mistaken. The MMWR report linked above tells me that the OB docs in this country have been reading the VAERS too – and despite their national orgs encouraging vaccination – are telling women NO WAY. I do not have an OB in my entire circle that is telling pregnant women to vaccinate. Not one.

        I am far from anti-vaccine – have given out over 30000 over my life. I am however very leery of things not fully tested – and feel that the risks and benefits must be weighed for every patient. The VAERS is critical for me to be able to do that. Unlike Rachel Maddow and Sean Hannity – I do actually know how to read the system and use it appropriately – and so do the vast majority of docs in this country. It is a sad day that tools like VAERS have been weaponized in our political wars.

        1. Phillip Cross

          Come on now! A report in VAERS is not equivalent to a health problem actually caused by a vaccine.

          Anyone (even me) can add a report to VAERS on that page. The reporters can genuinely believe the adverse event was caused by the vaccine, but that does not mean it is actually the case. Belief is not proof.

          1. Katniss Everdeen

            Tell that to the federal government / fda which, in granting an EUA, “pledge” to actively monitor the “safety” of the experimental vaccine. VAERS is part of the

            “well-established post-authorization/post-approval vaccine safety monitoring infrastructure that will be scaled up to meet the needs of a large-scale COVID-19 vaccination program.

            Once again, from that handy fda EUA “explainer” that no one bothers to read:

            Post-authorization vaccine safety monitoring is a federal government responsibility shared primarily by FDA and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), along with other agencies involved in healthcare delivery….

            The U.S. government has a well-established post-authorization/post-approval vaccine safety monitoring infrastructure that will be scaled up to meet the needs of a large-scale COVID-19 vaccination program. The U.S. government – in partnership with health systems, academic centers, and private sector partners – will use multiple existing vaccine safety monitoring systems to monitor COVID-19 vaccines in the post-authorization/approval period. Some of these systems are the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD), the Biologics Effectiveness and Safety (BEST) Initiative, and Medicare claims data.

            If VAERS is inadequate, it is by design. As intimated by Weinstein et al. in the video / podcast.

            https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

          2. IM Doc

            I am sorry – you clearly do not understand how the system works. –

            I am not a reporter believing anything when I look at VAERS – I am a physician looking at trends to help my patients. If a reporter does not understand how to use the system – maybe they should not be reporting about it.

            It is meant to look at overall trends – it is not meant to look at individual cases. It is an early warning system – and IT IS SCREAMING things to us – that are being roundly ignored by our health officials for the first time in my professional career. I have read many papers and sat through many lectures about how the VAERS has done this or that in previous years. Interesting how that has all gone by the wayside and minimized. We do live in very concerning times.

            For the first time in my career, docs at big hospital systems are being forced to run any and all patient safety vaccine issues through the risk management dept before going to VAERS. They are being threatened with being fired if the CDC through VAERS requests their patient’s medical records. Neither has ever happened in my life before – Why would you say that is?

            Such is the misinformation out there about VAERS in our media that good-hearted laymen like yourself are confused – and trying to make things of it that it was never designed to do. Again – something that has served the medical community for a long time has been weaponized by the media/politics. We live in very tragic times.

            I am just not sure what else to say.

            FYI – all of the more than a dozen patient issues that I have reported to VAERS this year have ABSOLUTELY been things caused by one of these vaccines.

            1. Phillip Cross

              Are you trying to tell me that I cannot submit a report to VAERS if I believe there had been an adverse reaction?

              If anyone can do it, (they can) you cannot say that the data tells us anything other than number of reports people filed.

              It does not tell us the number of reactions proven to be caused by the vaccine.

          3. Objective Ace

            >A report in VAERS is not equivalent to a health problem actually caused by a vaccine.

            This is true. But the substantial increase (from 150 yearly to 6000 in a 6 months) should at least give us pause and make us want to confirm there is no health problem. However, the CDC and FDA for whatever reason are not doing that. I hope you are right and there is no health problem with the vaccines, but the lack of interest in the matter by out public health agencies is not an endorsing statement to me that makes me inclined to get vaccinated

            1. Phillip Cross

              I haven’t had a vaccine for 30 years+, but they have jabbed 150m arms of the nations most vulnerable in the last 6 months. Unprecedented in the history of VAERS. Usually it’s just healthy kids getting vacinnes. A massive uptick in coincidental health issues is to be expected. Adults suddenly get sick and die in large numbers all the time.

              Is there any data on health issues happening at an above average rate?

              1. Fred

                This is not remotely correct. About 170m people got the flu shot last year, skewed to older and more vulnerable people. How many deaths in VAERS? 42

                And that happens every year.

          4. ChrisPacific

            If I’ve been following this correctly, I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of VAERS. It’s not intended to establish cause. It’s designed to capture EVERY adverse reaction following a vaccine, in order to provide a complete record of data. This data can then be used for further analysis to determine whether any of the reactions is potentially caused by the vaccine – typically by comparing the rate of incidence to the expected baseline rate in the population, and looking for large discrepancies.

            Some of the problematic cases I’ve seen, like myocarditis in teens, are showing numbers a factor of 10 or 20 higher than baseline rates. You can say that doesn’t prove causality, and you would be correct – but it does strongly indicate that it should be raised as a hypothesis and tested in the interests of public safety, and also that public health advice should be updated if the effect is significant enough. If there’s enough data suggesting it MIGHT be true then it’s also appropriate to take precautions with patients that fit the criteria, at least until it’s definitively proven one way or another.

            All of the above is exactly what IM Doc is doing, from my reading, and your comment does not refute any of it. Your contention that it’s being corrupted by misinformation is not borne out by any of the analysis that I’ve seen – in fact, for non-problematic cases the reporting rate for adverse events appears to track the population baseline rate extremely closely.

            1. Phillip Cross

              “It’s not intended to establish cause.”

              Exactly.

              VAERS tells us how many reports have been filed by anyone who feels they wish to make a report, and the public are able to file unverifiable reports online.

              So VAERS does not tell us how many adverse reactions have been caused by the vaccine.

              However, FUD merchants will tell you otherwise.

              1. ChrisPacific

                Your arguments seem to boil down to (a) VAERS does not prove cause and (b) some irresponsible elements in the media arguing that it does should not be believed. I think everyone in the discussion is happy to concede both those points. However, neither of them hits the key point, which is what to do in cases where a cause is strongly suggested by empirical evidence but not yet proven.

                You seem to be going further and arguing that because the VAERS data doesn’t establish cause, it’s useless. I strongly reject this argument. It’s empirical evidence, which in rapidly evolving situations like this one is often all we have to work with for a while. Like all empirical evidence it should be viewed with skepticism (VAERS itself comes with disclaimers to this effect, and outlines possible sources of bias). However, from what I can tell it appears to be reasonably high quality, with most reactions tracking very closely to the baseline rate in the population as a whole. If I see an order of magnitude discrepancy in a particular category in a dataset with that baseline level of fidelity, I’d call it cause for concern. Yes, it should be considered in context (20 times a very small number might still be a small number) and yes, the risk calculus might still favor taking the vaccine if you live somewhere like the US with high baseline risk of Covid. But if you’re suggesting – as you appear to be – that the data is useless, I would say you are every bit as guilty of exaggeration as the FUD merchants you are criticizing

                1. Aumua

                  Unpopular opinion (avert eyes if sensitive):

                  The vaccines seem to be generally very safe, with only a small fraction of a percentage of potentially dangerous reactions. Also they seem to be working pretty well. Just look at the worldometer numbers. Yes there is no guarantee that the vaccines prevent people from getting covid, getting sick or transmitting it. But I think it’s pretty clear that they do prevent exposed people from even catching at all it in the majority of cases. Once again, look at the numbers. In addition, the vaccines prevent death in nearly 100% of the cases.

                  I get the doubts, and it’s ok to have them. But just look at the way that healthy skepticism has taken off around here in just a few days into rampant suspicion and wild speculations of coverup and conspiracy, much of which is coming from only a very few questionable at best sources. I’m just saying lets all keep our pants on here.

                  1. IM Doc

                    Yes – I agree the symptoms are much diminished as are hospitalizations and deaths. When you look at the big picture of pandemics, it is completely unclear if this is related to the vaccines – or if this is just the natural course. The big drop off started long before the vaccines had a chance to do a thing. Pandemics are all different – they peter out, they get worse – we just do not know what this one is going to do. Right now – things are looking great – and I along with everyone hope it stays that way.

                    But, one of the very concerning things that can happen is to have a leaky vaccine. This is a virologic fact – and there are folks everywhere seeing the same things I am reporting here – just not in the media – who are completely involved in their own narratives and stories.

                    That development would not be good news. The pandemic could still peter out – but it could also get very ugly. It has gone both ways in both human and veterinary medicine. I think your assertion that it is preventing exposed people from catching it is not supportable in our current venue – completely inadequate testing and contact tracing is being done – there is no way to make assertions like that with incomplete testing. We just do not know where we are with that issue.

                    I am not seeing the “rampant suspicion and coverups and conspiracy ” that you are seeing. I find it tragic that questioning, hypothesizing, and taking care of one’s own patients is now considered a conspiracy theory. That is part of the problem and the tragedy we are living through today.

                    As far as “keeping pants on” – that is my life every day. I deal with life or death daily. I have had times in my life – AIDS – for example – that are far worse than this – I have not had to sign 12 death certificates daily for weeks like I did then. I am having to deal with things I have never dealt with before this past year – legions of confused patients – because of the negligence of our agencies.

                    1. Aumua

                      I agree with you that correlation is not necessarily causation about the decline in virus numbers and vaccines, but the the correlation is pretty strong to be fair. Also I do admit that I myself am speculating that the covid vaccine prevents infection in the majority of cases. I don’t know that for a fact, but that is what vaccines are supposed to do right? So it’s not that unreasonable to assume that is what they are doing. There’s been plenty of talk of coverups recently too, about the fatality numbers being fake or manipulated, doctors having agendas, false claims by authorities etc. Some of which are undoubtedly true. The authorities do not inspire confidence with their waffling and lack of useful information. So, we just have a lot of uncertainty, still. Like there has been the entire time around this whole thing. And that unfortunately is a fertile breeding ground for jumping to all kinds of conclusions, whether they are really supported or not.

                  2. Tom Bradford

                    The vaccines seem to be generally very safe,

                    is the problem for me.
                    They seem to be very safe if you read one set of data-wielding zealots, but don’t seem to be safe if you read another set of data-wielding zealots. While I’m not inclined to automatically place my faith in “the Authorities”, not all sinister-conspiracy-out-to-get-us paranoids wear obvious tin-foil hats.

                    While I give a lot of weight to IM Doc’s contributions here his statement:

                    I do actually know how to read the system and use it appropriately – and so do the vast majority of docs in this country. It is a sad day that tools like VAERS have been weaponized in our political wars.

                    troubles me, for if the vast majority of docs (in the US) can see what he claims to see why are so few speaking out? “The Authorities” might be able to intimidate or brow-beat a few docs with doubts into keeping them to themselves, but the “vast majority”? There’s strength in numbers, and I refuse to believe only a handful of doctors in the US have IM Doc’s regard for their Hippocratic Oath.

                    Too the “political wars” he claims to be weaponising tools like VAERS are only raging in the US. Would the medical professions in the UK, Europe and other places where these vaccines being rolled out be as supine in the face of widespread experience of adverse reactions to the vaccines as he seems to be suggesting is the case in the US?

                    Politics and third-rate politicians cost us all the opportunity to nip this in the bud last March/April with a world-wide, brutal and expensive lock-down which we would now be well out of and have had months of picking up the pieces at far less economic cost and disruption than is the on-going blundering and chaos. Given that Covid won the first round our choices now seem to be conceding it the field or fighting back with the weapons, however imperfect, we have.

                    1. IM Doc

                      With regard to the physicians and agencies in Europe –
                      Would encourage you to look at recent news out of Europe.

                      Germany is not recommending the vaccines for anyone under 20 unless they have other risk factors as of late last week.

                      The UK, I read today on the BBC, has its main FDA-like agency looking to recommend the same.

                      They may not have political wars ( I do not know – I do not live there) raging in those 2 major allies of ours – but they certainly seem to have scientists and medical people who are looking at the data and taking action to mitigate risk UNTIL MORE INFORMATION IS KNOWN.

                      As for the docs here and our Hippocratic Oath – please read my earlier comment about the OB physicians. I do not think more than 80% of the pregnant women in this country have declined the vaccine just because what they read on the Internet – it is clear to me talking with colleagues that many OB physicians have read the VAERS as well. They are actively discouraging the vaccine until after the delivery. I know – I have talked to multiple of them. The same thing is now beginning to happen in the pediatric cardiology community with all the myocarditis showing up.

                      And unfortunately – the “Vast Majority” of docs in this country are not able to talk – it is a problem that has been building for years – they are employees now – and risk losing it all for saying a word. I listen and talk to docs all the time who are profoundly concerned about what is going on – and just competely unable to talk because of their situation. Yes it is our own fault – we have given up much independence – but the price is now becoming painfully obvious to many.

                      I am in a fairly comfortable position where I am – but still am anonymous because I just do not want to take the chance right now.

                      And if you do not feel that the VAERS system has been politicized in our current malaise – you simply have not been paying attention. I would love for you to walk in my shoes any day and talk to the patients who are just massively confused. We have the right telling them one thing – the left telling them the polar opposite. The authorities who should in other times be able to clear the confusion are completely impotent and untrusted – they have been compromised after months of dissembling, politicking and outright lying.

                      It is a situation in this country that I would never have dreamed possible just 10 years ago.

  1. Katniss Everdeen

    “We have a solution to this crisis,” he said unequivocally. “There is a drug that is proving to have a miraculous impact.”

    Kory had been trying to make such a case, but complained to the Senate that public efforts had been stifled, because “every time we mention ivermectin, we get put in Facebook jail.”…

    As the supply of enthusiastic “early adopter” vaccine guinea pigs looks to be increasingly exhausted, and complications like myocarditis emerge that the cdc and fda must create less and less compelling justifications to ignore, can the reality of ivermectin continue to be kept from the public?

    Can zuckerberg et al. cancel Matt Taibbi for talking about it? What if Joe Rogan decides to weigh in?

    What if other countries, fed up with vaccine apartheid and unconstrained by rampant profiteering, successfully turn to Ivermectin? Without Trump to blame for “botching” management of the pandemic, would “media” really ignore any demonstrated results?

    Such are the perils of conducting a drug trial on such a massive scale, and using up all your censorship and information control bullets early on, I guess. Big pharma and the vaccine cheerleaders could really use a trusted media right now. Too bad they wasted it on Russiagate, impeachment and 1/6.

    1. IM Doc

      What if other countries, fed up with vaccine apartheid and unconstrained by rampant profiteering, successfully turn to Ivermectin? Without Trump to blame for “botching” management of the pandemic, would “media” really ignore any demonstrated results?

      I am not sure – but I believe the answer to the above question may be coming right on up. I sat through a 15 minute discussion on Zoom yesterday from a forum in one of our major medical centers about the Ivermectin usage in India…….

      As is the usual case, there are many confounding factors that must be dealt with by the epidemiologists – but I would say that the overall conclusion was that it had a rather positive affect on outcomes of mortality and morbidity. This is exactly my experience with the drug during our big surge this past year.

      And as the speaker said and I have heard so many times – the Declarations of Helsinki – our guiding force in medical ethics – really gives little wiggle room in whether or not to use it at this time with our limited information. We now have somewhat limited studies on efficacy – almost all of which are positive – but overwhelming evidence on safety. Our medical ethics history is screaming to us that this should be used – and right now.

      The fact that this is being openly discussed now in our major medical centers is a sign to me that the gyre is opening. Furthermore – a subsidiary of NATURE – one of the most important scientific journals in the world published yesterday a peer-reviewed evidence based paper detailing how the drug could actually work ( the link is in the above links today). This is paradigm shifting.

      The dam is beginning to break. Someday in the immediate near future – I cannot wait to see Zuckerberg and Dorsey squirming under the klieg lights about their company’s suppression of medical and scientific discourse. It is certainly one of the big scandals of our era.



The next post is pretty long so it'll be posted here separately to spare my readers.
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 I figured out that I can post the lengthy IM Doc posts without having them show up on everyone's reading pages. Is that something you would appreciate? I know those posts are really long and they probably clutter up Reading Pages with things that aren't everyone's main interest. Then again, one or two people have subscribed to my posts since I started posting those "captures" of the NC posts.

If you would be so kind as to leave a comment below indicating your preference, I'll go with whatever seems to make most folks happiest.

The IM Doc posts will continue to go up, so you can always just click directly to my journal to see what's new.

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