IM doc pt16

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The CDC’s VAERS and Vaccine Complications: The System is Broken

Posted on April 19, 2021 by Yves Smith

Yves here. As IM Doc indicates in passing in this post, he’s been keeping Lambert and me (and the other members of our Covid brain trust) updated on what he is seeing in the field, via the CDC’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and hearing from MDs at a major teaching hospital and in his network about the Covid vaccines. Recall that IM Doc was early to warn that vaccinations would soon hit a wall after those eager to take them had gotten their shots. He saw that in his area (which has a substantial wealthy/PMC population) before the J&J “pause”.

IM Doc has also been regularly describing his frustration and that of other physicians with the dearth of data and official advice. An example from a recent e-mail:

Is it not interesting that all of the press releases and information online and on TV continually refer to “a very rare condition”, “blood clots”, “blood disorder” in very nebulous terms. That could literally encompass hundreds of different diagnoses. As one of the other docs [on an internet conference] stated out loud:

There was a time when our federal medical folks would have this kind of situation and front and center would be an EXACT description of the problem and some kind of messaging to the physicians of America of what would we should be on the lookout for – and what we can do to treat…So far NOTHING about either issue – indicating they could not give 2 fucks about patients and physicians – this is now all about protecting Big Pharma and the money machine.

Indeed, this is most unusual, extraordinary as a matter of fact. Something has drastically changed in our federal agencies in just the past few years.

The last big issue involving the CDC was the vaping/lung damage issue and I was getting daily e-mails. I am definitely on their email list. I have not received a word about any of this – nor at this point do I really expect to. I have found nothing that is an exact clinical description of what is happening to these patients and what to expect. What I am able to glean from off-handed comments in a very few of the medical articles is that the use of any anti-coagulation agents especially heparin and lovenox, make things much worse. There is also apparently great concern about the newer agents like Eliquis and Xarelto. In other words, we have no treatment options. I am not exactly sure what we are supposed to do.

To say that I find it very concerning to not be informed of what exactly is going on is unprecedented and deeply concerning.

Now to IM Doc’s overview of the sorry state of vaccine deployment. This Administration is following the established Team Dem practice of treating every problem as if it can be solve with better PR. We are seeing that in a pandemic results in bad science, bad PR, and bad outcomes.

By IM Doc, a internal medicine doctor working in a rural hospital in the heartlands

I am the son of a public health officer.  As a young child, I saw my father struggle through the swine flu of 1976 and the vaccine debacle that accompanied that era.

As I grew older, and especially once I entered medicine, he had several heart-to-heart talks with me about a career in medicine and by extension public health.  I can summarize what he told me in two large thrusts.

1)  Integrity, truth, and honesty is EVERYTHING in public health.  Once squandered, it will never return.

2)  Public health is 10% science and 90% psychology.  Do not ever forget that.  You will get nowhere by screaming SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENCE and you will certainly get nowhere by flashing credentials.  And you must have an acute awareness of panic, fear and anxiety.  They change everything and your response must always take that into account.

I have done everything I can as an Internist and Primary Care Physician to conduct myself with honesty and integrity and to respect the emotions and thoughts of my patients and my community.  To conduct myself any other way would be a fool’s errand.

So it came as no surprise to watch this Bill Maher segment on Friday night with my wife. 

 

Watch on YouTube

 

And as if right on cue, the CEOs of both Moderna and Pfizer made statements this week that further vaccinations will be required.  I am not certain that anyone on the anti-vaxxer side is making more effective arguments in people’s mind than all of these official medical people.

I hear it every day all day from my patients.  We are already in a bad situation in this country with trust of our officials.  And then the safety bomb went off this week.

I am going to share the story of a very grim task I have had to do this week.  I have given pertinent details to Yves & Lambert, but to protect the complete confidentiality of the patient and her family, I will not be nearly as specific here.

I am going to talk about safety.  From the inception of this vaccine strategy, we have been told these vaccines were as safe as the other vaccines we use all the time.  We were also assured that because they were not yet approved, and under emergency use only, safety issues would be stringently followed.  I want to share my experience and my patient’s experience with this safety net.

It is very important to start this discussion with a federal system known as VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System).  I have used this system yearly in my career since its advent.  It has been invaluable to follow complications with the usual vaccines given in a PCP office – most usually the flu shots.  During flu shot season, I keep my eyes on it frequently to monitor any complications that may be arising in that year’s flu shot.  In December, I had noted that there were a few dozen deaths noted on the VAERS around the 2020 flu shots – which was right in line with previous years.  No practicing physicians take these numbers as 100% accurate, the system is flawed in multiple ways – but it is very helpful to follow overall stats/ratios and specific medical issues.  We all know these are not totally investigated cases – but benchmarks to guide our practice around vaccines.  In other words, it is now and always has been an invaluable resource.

In early January of this year, in my own patients, I began to notice in COVID vaccinated patients a small number who were having significant complications from various blood clotting issues.  These were very strange things that do not happen in the normal practice of medicine.  I emailed Yves and Lambert back then that I was becoming a bit concerned that this was happening.   

As has been my usual practice when there is a problem like this, I began following the VAERS system very carefully.  And to my great concern, I saw a very large number of cases of death and complications similar to what I was seeing.  The ratio of complications was quite startling – 100-200 times or so more than the control group of 2020 flu vaccines.   The VAERS system is currently reporting over 3000 deaths related to the Pfizer and Moderna COVID vaccines.  The numbers in the European registries are almost exactly in line with this as well.  I would guess from a simple perusal that about half these reports – both death and morbidity – are directly related to blood clotting issues.

VAERS was never a system meant to be perfectly accurate – but having a 100-200X difference in mortality rates should be attention-getting to everyone in medicine.  And yet instead of addressing this issue head-on, our medical leaders continued right on with the party line that EVERYTHING IS SAFE and GOING SWIMMINGLY – nothing to see here.   There were days that I felt like I was living in The Twilight Zone.

Because the nation’s medical officials were not addressing the problems, others noticed the VAERS reporting failures and started to publicize them. Of course, within weeks, we had articles like this one in Vice showing up and completely mischaracterizing the entire VAERS system and process.

When you start your article by lionizing an individual who has happily and admittedly committed both a federal crime (by placing fake reports) and a nasty breach of medical ethics, you literally can only go down from there. And they do. Such is “journalism” in America today. I do not like to call people liars – but that article reports more misrepresentations than I have seen in this entire year of COVID reporting. And the writers revealed a complete misunderstanding of the entire system. Like so many other things in our world today, research is optional.

The VAERS system is very cumbersome to use – both reporting and data presentation.    Every step of the way, you are reminded it is a federal crime to put false information.  It is also clear as a clinician that there are false reports there but they are a very distinct microscopic minority.  You can easily tell that most are submitted by fellow clinicians and it is very helpful to quantify issues in a general way and see if there are similar threads with your patients and the other reported ones.

Because of the novel nature of these vaccines, an app based system, VSAFE, was developed and widely implemented to report safety and side effect issues.  Unfortunately, I cannot even express the number of times patients in my office demonstrated that the app does not work – all that happened was the spinning blue ball.  In fact, when my own wife tried to report her side effects through the app, she gave up after 4-5 attempts. Never able to connect.  The whole experience reminds one of the last time the Feds tried computer apps – the disastrous Obamacare sign up.

My grim job this week was to report a vaccine related death to the authorities.  I have had to do this type of reporting on other occasions in my career, with other drugs, both approved and research trials, with both deaths and morbid complications.  In every single instance in the past, without exception, I have been contacted within 1-2 hours by either the FDA or the CDC.  They questioned me, discussed the particulars with me, and a collaboration was begun.

This death was much different.

A little about the patient situation. She had her vaccine about 8 AM on a weekday. It was the 2nd shot. Very soon thereafter, she felt electric shocks over her entire body. Later, she was having trouble speaking and could not stand up. She began having severe problems swallowing. I advised to go immediately to the ER. I will not go into details here but suffice it to say, she was having a profound neurologic problem. It was not a simple stroke nor was it a blood clotting issue. Because of the timing of symptom initiation, it was clear to me that the vaccine was likely involved. She was diagnosed with a condition that is very very unusual and is often associated with vaccine administration. She had 5 weeks of very severe pain and did not recover. She was eventually placed on hospice and passed away. Before she died, she told me to make sure that everyone knows that these vaccines are not as safe as advertised. Believe you me, her family is doing everything they can to make sure that this story is known all over the community. The patient herself was a very well-loved individual here – and this has been a blow to the entire area.

I am a licensed physician in a US state.  I am board bertified in Internal Medicine.  I made every effort to immediately report this death to the federal officials.  I called the FDA and ended up in voicemail hell.  I called the CDC and was literally hung up on twice.  Again, please contrast that reception to what I describe above in previous “non-crisis” years. 

After multiple attempts, I finally decided to report to VAERS.  This was almost a week ago.  To date, the VAERS has no record of my patient.  All that I have received is an email to confirm my submission.  No one from any agency has made any effort to contact me in any way.  It was of little comfort to note in in the New York Times, that the physicians trying to report one of the sentinel J&J stroke cases got a similar “hang up in your face” response from the FDA/CDC.

I want to reiterate – a patient has died.  A board-certified internist feels this is likely vaccine-related.  And no one has made any effort to contact me.  None. A complete departure from the past.  And this is a stringent safety-reporting system?

What am I trying to say?  The system is broken.  Therefore, we have no idea what is the actual safety profile of these vaccines.  The patients who have been affected know it.  Word is getting out that there are problems.  Social media is filled with all kinds of stories.  And our federal officials keep right on with the same “All is well – everything is safe” mantra.  We have media figures everywhere spouting out safety numbers that I can assure you are not accurate.  All in an environment when they are trying to convince as many as possible to take this vaccine.

This is all so sad.  The early efficacy numbers are looking good (we do not know how long that will last nor if they are effective against the variants).  But because of the bumbling of the federal response, and now the safety concerns, large swathes are turning their backs.  This environment is perfect for the creation of all kinds of conspiracy theories.  And believe me, they are out there and multiplying every day.  Things like this happen in the absence of trust and credibility.  It is simple human nature.  Just like my father said – public health is 90% psychology.

The primary care practitioners of this country and their patients are in a terrible situation.  It did not have to be this way.

IM DocApril 19, 2021 at 10:56 am

As I stated in the piece – it is very critical to remember that the purpose of the VAERS is not to be 100% accurate. It, however, can be used as an early warning sign that things are amiss. It has in the past been vital in previous vaccine issues – such as Gardasil and RSV.

There were basically 20 vaccine deaths for the influenza virus in the 2020 year. If you look back for the past dozen years or so – that is right in line – a few dozen reports each year. Other sources tell me that approximately 130,000,000 doses of influenza vaccine were given in the year 2020. This too is not accurate – but is basically in line with previous years – even a bit higher than usual – there was a huge push if you recall to vaccinate everyone with the flu shot – thinking it would be a co-morbidity with COVID.

So the flu shot ( a good control cohort for another respiratory virus vaccine ) had deaths of about 20 in a dosing cohort of 130,000,000 making that ratio – 1 death in 6.5 million vaccine doses.

It is difficult to know where to cut off the COVID vaccine – because it is an ongoing process – so as of today – the VAERS is up to date as of APRIL 2. As of that day – the best info I can find is that 179,000,000 doses of COVID vaccine had been given around that date. And as of that date in VAERS we have 2700 or so vaccine related death reports. That is 1 death in 66296 vaccine administrations.

The COVID ratio for reported deaths/vaccine administered to the 2020 flu shot season with reported deaths is right at 98.

That is a startling differential. It is certainly not 100% accurate – but it is a very severe variance from a normal well-known vaccine like the flu shot. As I have indicated in the piece – the system is way behind, who knows what all is being processed at this time.

The point of the VAERS system is not to be 100% accurate. It is to be an early warning system – and to guide clinicians with their own witnessed complications and side effects.

It should be obvious to all that we have a problem.

It is my contention – that if the powers that be would just be straight and level with the American people that yes there is a huge safety problem associated with this vaccine – and we are doing everything we can to help and get us through this – that they would be light years ahead of where they are now. But that is not what they are doing.

The point is – in times past – the media would be jumping all over this – it is a huge discrepancy. Instead, the media is taking every opportunity to bash the VAERS system. It is telling a concerning story that they cannot fit into the SAFE SAFE SAFE narrative – and instead of dealing with the problem, they are bashing what system we have left.

I am certain that a young reporter could make his/her life’s reputation with this story like Woodward & Bernstein – but they seem to be nowhere to be found.

So people like me have to report this confidentially. Sorry – I know it is not ideal. The owners of this blog know exactly who I am – and I have been straightforward with them from Day 1. I cannot at this time risk being identified – we live in a nasty cancel culture. Maybe one day I can let it all be known – but not today.

I find it so interesting – that people dismiss things from anonymous sources that do not fit into their narratives – but are willing to soak it all in with things like Russiagate.

We live in an amazing world.

 

1. TaungerApril 19, 2021 at 11:38 am

   I appreciate you breaking out the numbers and clarifying that the 100x number is in fact deaths, not just complications. Sobering material. It would be wonderful if our society could directly engage in the value of vaccination, if any, in light of these findings.

   Thank you again for your response. I did not doubt your earnestness, but the weight to assign the statements was hard to discern without some additional context.

    
   1. IM DocApril 19, 2021 at 11:48 am

      You make another point that is important.

      The numbers above are just actual DEATHS.

      The number of morbid complications when compared to the flu shot is equally overwhelming if not more so – now numbering into the tens of thousands. And no – we are not just talking about fever and chills.

      Please go read through the case reports for yourselves.

1. Hana MApril 19, 2021 at 4:05 pm

   IM Doc, I couldn’t make head or tail of the VAERS database so I appreciate your breaking out these numbers. Could the deaths be heavily skewed because the earliest people vaccinated were frail elderly in nursing homes, and older, sicker individuals in later tranches? Thanks for commenting.

    
   1. IM DocApril 19, 2021 at 4:12 pm

      That is a good thought; however, the controlled group of flu shots is heavily skewed to the same group – there may be some variance but not enough to account for the severe discrepancy.

Basil PestoApril 19, 2021 at 3:50 pm

If I may, I think the main takeaway here is not that the vaccines are bad and no one should take them at all (though IM Doc can certainly correct me if I’m wrong), but that they have a risk profile all their own and the obfuscation of this fact, in the interest/at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies, or for whatever reason, is bad for a few salient reasons (in my own, potentially meagre understanding):

1. It weakens trust, which ought to be a sine qua non of public health

2. By downplaying, minimising, or obscuring the risks, or just pretending they don’t exist at all and you’re an anti-vax nut if you even entertain the possibility, it makes it difficult not just for patients, but apparently physicians, to adequately understand and assess the risks and make informed decisions about these vaccines, including on how to treat patients if serious adverse effects are experienced.

3. In a similar fashion, by presenting the vaccines as some kind of miracle cure that will see normalcy restored to the world in a matter of weeks/months, instead of adequately reckoning with the real-world shortcomings of these vaccines, it has the potential to undermine genuinely effective measures that reduce individual infection and communal transmission alike, such as masking, ventilation, etc., or lockdowns and border shutdowns for those jurisdictions that use those strategies. This could have serious long term consequences on a large scale.

 

1. IM DocApril 19, 2021 at 4:15 pm

   You are correct in every way in my opinion.

   I am not anti-vaccination –
   However – I am very much attuned to people’s risk profiles. And we should be much more clear with people that this is not a “risk-free” endeavor.

and the take of another MD:

RM MDApril 19, 2021 at 11:45 am

Thank you for the IM Doc post. I was a board certified internist who practiced in the Midwest for 35 years before retiring 22 years ago. A longer perspective than the present pandemic is necessary to understand what is and has happened in medicine and public health. My first semester in medical school the tuition was $500 which was the same as the last semester at my undergrad private liberal arts alma mater. The Midwestern state in which I grew up and had all my graduate and medical training had in the early 1960’s an understood policy that the state was responsible to provide a medical education for the medical care of its residents. That education was superb and highly individualized with several mentors and covered nine years. It served me well in Vietnam and then in private practice. Beginning roughly 25 years ago the Dean’s letter requesting donations noted that state funds provided less than 5% of the medical schools operating budget. And that hasn’t changed.
The states obligation had dropped out of sight and as it did tuition sky-rocketed. Then in the 1980’s states decided public health funding could decrease and it did at the state and national level which along with the financial crises of 2000 and 2008 ended up with fewer funds for public health. Then with the Trump administration the CDC was further marginalized, the FDA corrupted and science in general demeaned in government.

As the pandemic exploded here in the US the information we got from the President and Fox was idiotic and the info from CNN and MSNBC with dozens of epidemiologists, ER docs, pulmonologists who were not explaining to me why the protean aspects of Covid-19 were occurring particularly the clotting issue. Renal dialysis machines clotting off was particularly striking. By April 2000 I had not seen a pathology study of the lung or any other organ which in medicine has been the foundation of beginning to understand a new disease.
The idea of a “storm” inflammatory and clotting factors by its simplicity was too easy. The fact that the endothelium (the lining cells of all arteries, arterioles, capillaries, veins, the heart and lymphatics) might be involved seemed like a significant step forward. In the lung the alveolus (air sac) becomes partially fluid filled from the infection and its partner capillary necessary for oxygen exchange clots might well explain the precipitous fall in oxygen levels. I kept wondering where is the Dr. Don Seldin, the Dr. John Hickam, other Deans and heads of Dept of Medicine? These were the real critical thinkers in medicine and I didn’t hear such a voice.

It has become clear that the pandemic of early 2020 is not the pandemic of late 2020 and 2021. The moveable parts of the pandemic change and keep changing including infectivity, age distribution of the infected, hospitalizations and deaths, the attempt to develop a vaccine infrastructure on the run with its increasing evident defects as IM Doc points out.

My conclusions follow:
1. The loss of the sense of health as “the public good” for medical education and public health has corrupted health care and a significant cause of outrageous cost.
2. My hat if off to those medical personal on the front line in the doctors office, ER, ICU who have worked to the point of complete exhaustion mentally and physically
3. The loss of a sense of trust will be difficult to and may not change as IM Doc points out
4. The media has failed to educate the public by poor choice of interviewers and interviewees. A doctor held with the respect of a Dr. Don Seldin or Dr. John Hickam should be asking the tough and unfortunately many times unanswerable questions to those physicians best able to respond. Forget the happy talk that has been epidemic during the pandemic. Anything less than honesty is a problem.
5. Profiteering should be criminal whether with a vaccine, masks or other necessary equipment to deal with a public health emergency. Financial penalties and jail time required.
6. Covid-19 is teaching us much about the infection however this is just the beginning and there will be much yet to be learned. Save the happy talk for when hundreds and thousands are not dying of the infection each day. Remember: Nature bats last.
 

Hana MApril 19, 2021 at 7:21 pm

Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying, who view the world, society, politics and economics through the lens of evolutionary biologists. They do a free weekly video podcast and Q&A, with additional material for subscribers (mostly Patreon, I think). https://www.youtube.com/c/BretWeinsteinDarkHorse/featured

 

1. IM DocApril 19, 2021 at 7:52 pm

   I could not recommend this more highly – I listen to these two on their podcast every week. I do not think there has been a single one that has not made me think hard about all kinds of various issues. And that is very rare these days.

Re: Just published @nature
The largest study of post-covid sequelae, >70,000 hospitalized, >13,000 out-patients, with controls, characterizing the significant risks across all organ systems #LongCovid https://t.co/xdapBBqvt7 pic.twitter.com/CUhdGyF51U

— Eric Topol (@EricTopol) April 22, 2021

IM DocApril 24, 2021 at 10:55 am

I will add my two cents about the above tweet. Having been informed by a patient experience I had this week.

I think it is critical to note the huge number of nursing home workers that are young women under 40 – both nursing and support staff. I do not have exact numbers but just from experience over 3 decades – I would say that demographic is 50-75% of the employees in nursing homes and rehab centers.

The NYTimes tweet above places the blame of the outbreak of COVID among vaccinated patients and staff at the doorstep of a young unvaccinated female worker. Of course – it is all the fault of the young rube making a disastrous decision. No one ever talks about the actual reasons why she is making that decision.

I have heard all these stories of the menstrual problems after the vaccine for weeks. Because I am an internist, that topic does not come up very often. However, I had my first patient encounter this week with a custodial staff member in a local nursing home. She has had a Mirena IUD in place for the past 12 months. She had minimal but appropriate menstrual flow with the device until late February. She had her 2nd Pfizer shot in late Feb – and then 1 day later began to have profound and severe menstrual flow. Way way worse than ever in her life. She has Obamacare – so she has a $10000 deductible – so she avoids doctor visits like the plague. Her husband finally dragged her in, tired of paying for literally boxes of pads every 2-3 days. She had bled her hemoglobin down to 6. My initial impression was the IUD had become somehow dislodged and damaged her. NOPE – No evidence of that found on exam by OBGYN. Perfect working order. No infections. No nothing – just a very profoundly hypertrophied endometrium. She is going to be fine and getting taken care of. Interestingly, I have NEVER not once seen this kind of thing with an IUD. I have no explanation why this or any other menstrual issues are happening with these vaccines.

BUT she has shared this finding with all the other women at work – and informed me yesterday a not so small number of them had very strange menstrual issues after their shot. Including a 60 something who had her first period in 20 years starting 2 days after her Pfizer 2nd dose.

I would make this point – there were enough women in the vaccine trials – to have noted this problem during the trials. And yet nothing was said. Was it noticed? Was it documented? I have learned from my OB GYN colleagues this week that indeed they have been seeing this issue – not in huge numbers – but definitely a phenomenon.

So you have young women with a problem like this going on at enough frequency that the rumor mill is engaged in a big way. Many know personally women who have stories.

And as usual – crickets chirping – from our federal officials. And they wonder why there is no trust.

You see – as a PCP – I deal with human nature – the human condition. One of the fundamental issues of young people is having children – especially women. You start having this issue occur and no one in authority is even making an attempt to address it – and what do you think is going to happen?

The older I get – the more I am beginning to believe that these elites are really not humans – they may be lizards in disguise after all.

And even more importantly – these young women are critical in the vaccination effort because of their jobs – as documented in the tweet above.

And unfortunately – one has not far to look to see how far the medical elites have their heads up their asses.

Dr. Gawande – I know you live in an ivory tower – and love to make proclamations from on high. Those of us who work with real patients and real people know that if you keep talking like that – the staffs of the nursing homes are just going to walk. Indeed, it has already started – talk to the HR folks in any of them across this country. You pay them so well – that they could just as easily be working at Burger King.

Keep it up – and we will have an even bigger problem than you can even possibly imagine.

My God – a little bit of trust and credibility goes along way. My profession has learned this over decades – and the medical elite in charge have just shat all over that decades of hard work in no time.

Rant off.

IM DocApril 25, 2021 at 1:07 pm

There is literally a betting pool among my academic medicine colleagues on how long it will be before Rachel Maddow begins referring to these vaccines as “Trump’s Vaccines”.

I am not a betting man. But it is intriguing to think about.
 

zagonostraApril 26, 2021 at 2:34 pm

>Whatever. Focus on getting them to everyone who wants them more than trying to convince MAGA chuds

MAGNA Chuds? I didn’t know that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was a MAGNA. Marginalize those with have criticisms of WHO, Bill Gates, vaccine immunity liability, and all those other tin-hat wearing conspiracist theory aficionados and you will never get a majority to vaccinate. Yeah, concentrate on those who you can convince to get it.

I have friends/family on both sides of the issue of getting vaccinated. If you can’t be respectful, and all you can do is virtue signal, than good luck Mr. Eschaton. The true Eschaton will see who was right.

 

1. IM DocApril 26, 2021 at 3:16 pm

   I have been saying this for weeks – and will say so again.

   All that were freely willing to be vaccinated have been. We are now left with the doubtful, the skeptical and the downright hostile.

   Some counties in America have been lucky enough to get to 50% vaccinated rates. Some are still in the 20s. All are closing their vaccine centers because that time has now passed.

   I talk to these hesitant folks all the time. I absolutely assure you the LAST thing that will change their mind is haughtiness and name-calling like these people like Eschaton and others are doing. It will do far more to cement their position in place. As far as MAGA – you would be shocked at the number of blue liberals who are refusing the vaccine as well. This is really not all about politics. There are a myriad of things rolling around people’s brains and souls.

   I had one in my office today – a former state health department leader. The comment she made that stuck with me – was “I notice that there are now vaccine ads all over the place. Have you ever wondered why there is not a rushed 30 second list of all the side effects at the end like all the other pharmaceutical ads are forced to do? It makes you wonder doesn’t it?”

   If anyone out there can help me with an answer to that question, please do so. And believe me – equally probing questions are coming right and left all day for me.

   My patients are not dumb. They are not “chuds”. They are people concerned about their own lives and the lives of their community. Many of them feel like they are being lied to. These are people who would line up at blood drives and do anything for their community. They are very likely to have taken all required vaccinations in the past. I am not sure how I will ever convince any of them. The conspiracy theories are running at a fever pitch – and the most concerning thing about that is I see no one in any position of authority doing a thing about it.

   We do indeed live in interesting times.

1. graysladyApril 26, 2021 at 4:41 pm

   IM Doc, I suspect your reasoning is correct for the area in which you live–which you have previously indicated is reasonably well-to-do. However, there are many people who can’t take off work, or don’t have transportation to a vaccination site, or don’t have someone to look after their kids while they get the shot. Others, who don’t have green cards, may still not entirely believe that someone isn’t going to find out about them and deport them. Too many people still believe it’s easy to get a vaccine now, but even here in the Chicago area we’ve seen how Walgreens has managed to discourage people by having a completely unworkable system. There has also been, imo, far too much dependence on computer-driven information. The poor and many of the elderly don’t depend on computers the way we commenting at NC do. I still believe there are many who could be vaccinated if we took a more human approach to them and understood their limitations.

    
   1. IM DocApril 26, 2021 at 6:31 pm

      I agree.

      These issues are not common in my area. But this is an entire bag of worms which my colleagues back in the big city have been screeching about for weeks. I think the most frustrating thing to them is no effort seems to be happening to help the situation.

      There is some movement with the locked-in elderly. But all the other issues you describe are real and ongoing.
       

cocomaanApril 26, 2021 at 3:24 pm

As a Pennsylvanian, I can understand the bizarre reporting error. Vaccine distribution in my state has been an embarrassment. Huge surpluses of vaccines in rural mountain counties, with the collar counties of Philadelphia whining about how they couldn’t get any. Have to wonder how many went in the trash.

Most of the people I know that have gotten one has virtually gotten it by accident (showing up and seeing if they have any extra at EOB) or lying and saying that they’re a cigarette smoker (know more than one person who did this).

I know 90 year olds who couldn’t get it and 45 year olds who did because they were payroll desk jockeys for an ‘essential’ corp. Dumb.

Now, all of a sudden, there’s huge amounts of vaccine all over the place and outlets like Penn Medicine are begging people to come.

Welcome to Pennsylvania, where we’re neither #1 or #50 on any measure, but somehow manage to do things worse than everyone else.

 

1. cocomaanApril 26, 2021 at 3:33 pm

   Don’t want to clutter up the comments section, so I’m replying to myself, but I wondered if the reason that we’re seeing cases/deaths going down at the same time as vaccine uptake is that all the extroverts and restaurant-goers have all gotten their vaccines. So the people doing the most hobnobbing and such are set with their vaccine and thus not spreading it anymore.

   The inspiration for this idea was a meme I saw recently. It went something like this: “It took the pandemic for me to realize that many people’s entire personality was based around going to restaurants.”

   Someone should institute a quick Myers Briggs at the door to see if the I or E’s are getting vaccinated.

    
   1. Michael IsmoeApril 26, 2021 at 7:25 pm

      This helps explain it.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/millions-of-americans-are-skipping-their-second-shot/ar-BB1g2K7X?ocid=uxbndlbing

       
2. IM DocApril 26, 2021 at 3:38 pm

   Please correct me if I am recalling this incorrectly.

   One of the most hilarious stories coming out of COVID so far I believe happened in Philadelphia. Early on in the vaccine push, the county had handed over the vaccine logistics to a company of millenials. The ensuing fiasco was just hilarious to read. The fact that it was ever allowed is staggering.

   I think that was in Philly – I may be incorrect.

   It appears things started in PA with a bomb and never turned around.

    
   1. cocomaanApril 26, 2021 at 3:48 pm

      Yep, you got it. 22 year old (might even qualify as a Gen Z at that point).

      https://www.npr.org/2021/01/29/962190196/why-philadelphia-gave-a-22-year-olds-startup-a-vaccine-contract-then-canceled-it

      And here’s the article about the shortchanging of the Philadelphia counties:

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawmakers-say-southeastern-pa-shortchanged-by-100k-vaccine-doses/ar-BB1enoKI

      And if you’re really masochistic, here’s a great incidence of “Grifters gonna grift” when it comes to wealthy Chester County and their thousands of useless testing kits. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9312803/Pennsylvania-county-blocks-workers-sharing-job-related-info-COVID-scandal.html

      PA is the poster child for incompetence. Somehow, we have managed not to have the absolute worst numbers in the country, but it isn’t for lack of trying.

       
      
      

Comments

As I stated in the piece – it is very critical to remember that the purpose of the VAERS is not to be 100% accurate. It, however, can be used as an early warning sign that things are amiss. It has in the past been vital in previous vaccine issues – such as Gardasil and RSV.

There were basically 20 vaccine deaths for the influenza virus in the 2020 year. If you look back for the past dozen years or so – that is right in line – a few dozen reports each year. Other sources tell me that approximately 130,000,000 doses of influenza vaccine were given in the year 2020. This too is not accurate – but is basically in line with previous years – even a bit higher than usual – there was a huge push if you recall to vaccinate everyone with the flu shot – thinking it would be a co-morbidity with COVID.

So the flu shot ( a good control cohort for another respiratory virus vaccine ) had deaths of about 20 in a dosing cohort of 130,000,000 making that ratio – 1 death in 6.5 million vaccine doses.

It is difficult to know where to cut off the COVID vaccine – because it is an ongoing process – so as of today – the VAERS is up to date as of APRIL 2. As of that day – the best info I can find is that 179,000,000 doses of COVID vaccine had been given around that date. And as of that date in VAERS we have 2700 or so vaccine related death reports. That is 1 death in 66296 vaccine administrations.

The COVID ratio for reported deaths/vaccine administered to the 2020 flu shot season with reported deaths is right at 98.

That is a startling differential. It is certainly not 100% accurate – but it is a very severe variance from a normal well-known vaccine like the flu shot. As I have indicated in the piece – the system is way behind, who knows what all is being processed at this time.

The point of the VAERS system is not to be 100% accurate. It is to be an early warning system – and to guide clinicians with their own witnessed complications and side effects.

It should be obvious to all that we have a problem.

It is my contention – that if the powers that be would just be straight and level with the American people that yes there is a huge safety problem associated with this vaccine – and we are doing everything we can to help and get us through this – that they would be light years ahead of where they are now. But that is not what they are doing.

The point is – in times past – the media would be jumping all over this – it is a huge discrepancy. Instead, the media is taking every opportunity to bash the VAERS system. It is telling a concerning story that they cannot fit into the SAFE SAFE SAFE narrative – and instead of dealing with the problem, they are bashing what system we have left.

I am certain that a young reporter could make his/her life’s reputation with this story like Woodward & Bernstein – but they seem to be nowhere to be found.

So people like me have to report this confidentially. Sorry – I know it is not ideal. The owners of this blog know exactly who I am – and I have been straightforward with them from Day 1. I cannot at this time risk being identified – we live in a nasty cancel culture. Maybe one day I can let it all be known – but not today.

I find it so interesting – that people dismiss things from anonymous sources that do not fit into their narratives – but are willing to soak it all in with things like Russiagate.

We live in an amazing world.

As I stated in the piece – it is very critical to remember that the purpose of the VAERS is not to be 100% accurate. It, however, can be used as an early warning sign that things are amiss. It has in the past been vital in previous vaccine issues – such as Gardasil and RSV.

There were basically 20 vaccine deaths for the influenza virus in the 2020 year. If you look back for the past dozen years or so – that is right in line – a few dozen reports each year. Other sources tell me that approximately 130,000,000 doses of influenza vaccine were given in the year 2020. This too is not accurate – but is basically in line with previous years – even a bit higher than usual – there was a huge push if you recall to vaccinate everyone with the flu shot – thinking it would be a co-morbidity with COVID.

So the flu shot ( a good control cohort for another respiratory virus vaccine ) had deaths of about 20 in a dosing cohort of 130,000,000 making that ratio – 1 death in 6.5 million vaccine doses.

It is difficult to know where to cut off the COVID vaccine – because it is an ongoing process – so as of today – the VAERS is up to date as of APRIL 2. As of that day – the best info I can find is that 179,000,000 doses of COVID vaccine had been given around that date. And as of that date in VAERS we have 2700 or so vaccine related death reports. That is 1 death in 66296 vaccine administrations.

The COVID ratio for reported deaths/vaccine administered to the 2020 flu shot season with reported deaths is right at 98.

That is a startling differential. It is certainly not 100% accurate – but it is a very severe variance from a normal well-known vaccine like the flu shot. As I have indicated in the piece – the system is way behind, who knows what all is being processed at this time.

The point of the VAERS system is not to be 100% accurate. It is to be an early warning system – and to guide clinicians with their own witnessed complications and side effects.

It should be obvious to all that we have a problem.

It is my contention – that if the powers that be would just be straight and level with the American people that yes there is a huge safety problem associated with this vaccine – and we are doing everything we can to help and get us through this – that they would be light years ahead of where they are now. But that is not what they are doing.

The point is – in times past – the media would be jumping all over this – it is a huge discrepancy. Instead, the media is taking every opportunity to bash the VAERS system. It is telling a concerning story that they cannot fit into the SAFE SAFE SAFE narrative – and instead of dealing with the problem, they are bashing what system we have left.

I am certain that a young reporter could make his/her life’s reputation with this story like Woodward & Bernstein – but they seem to be nowhere to be found.

So people like me have to report this confidentially. Sorry – I know it is not ideal. The owners of this blog know exactly who I am – and I have been straightforward with them from Day 1. I cannot at this time risk being identified – we live in a nasty cancel culture. Maybe one day I can let it all be known – but not today.

I find it so interesting – that people dismiss things from anonymous sources that do not fit into their narratives – but are willing to soak it all in with things like Russiagate.

We live in an amazing world.

You make another point that is important.

The numbers above are just actual DEATHS.

The number of morbid complications when compared to the flu shot is equally overwhelming if not more so – now numbering into the tens of thousands. And no – we are not just talking about fever and chills.

Please go read through the case reports for yourselves.

I appreciate you breaking out the numbers and clarifying that the 100x number is in fact deaths, not just complications. Sobering material. It would be wonderful if our society could directly engage in the value of vaccination, if any, in light of these findings.

Thank you again for your response. I did not doubt your earnestness, but the weight to assign the statements was hard to discern without some additional context.

I appreciate you breaking out the numbers and clarifying that the 100x number is in fact deaths, not just complications. Sobering material. It would be wonderful if our society could directly engage in the value of vaccination, if any, in light of these findings.

Thank you again for your response. I did not doubt your earnestness, but the weight to assign the statements was hard to discern without some additional context.

You make another point that is important.

The numbers above are just actual DEATHS.

The number of morbid complications when compared to the flu shot is equally overwhelming if not more so – now numbering into the tens of thousands. And no – we are not just talking about fever and chills.

Please go read through the case reports for yourselves.

You make another point that is important.

The numbers above are just actual DEATHS.

The number of morbid complications when compared to the flu shot is equally overwhelming if not more so – now numbering into the tens of thousands. And no – we are not just talking about fever and chills.

Please go read through the case reports for yourselves.

You make another point that is important.

The numbers above are just actual DEATHS.

The number of morbid complications when compared to the flu shot is equally overwhelming if not more so – now numbering into the tens of thousands. And no – we are not just talking about fever and chills.

Please go read through the case reports for yourselves.

That is a good thought; however, the controlled group of flu shots is heavily skewed to the same group – there may be some variance but not enough to account for the severe discrepancy.

IM Doc, I couldn’t make head or tail of the VAERS database so I appreciate your breaking out these numbers. Could the deaths be heavily skewed because the earliest people vaccinated were frail elderly in nursing homes, and older, sicker individuals in later tranches? Thanks for commenting.

IM Doc, I couldn’t make head or tail of the VAERS database so I appreciate your breaking out these numbers. Could the deaths be heavily skewed because the earliest people vaccinated were frail elderly in nursing homes, and older, sicker individuals in later tranches? Thanks for commenting.

That is a good thought; however, the controlled group of flu shots is heavily skewed to the same group – there may be some variance but not enough to account for the severe discrepancy.

That is a good thought; however, the controlled group of flu shots is heavily skewed to the same group – there may be some variance but not enough to account for the severe discrepancy.

That is a good thought; however, the controlled group of flu shots is heavily skewed to the same group – there may be some variance but not enough to account for the severe discrepancy.

If I may, I think the main takeaway here is not that the vaccines are bad and no one should take them at all (though IM Doc can certainly correct me if I’m wrong), but that they have a risk profile all their own and the obfuscation of this fact, in the interest/at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies, or for whatever reason, is bad for a few salient reasons (in my own, potentially meagre understanding):

1. It weakens trust, which ought to be a sine qua non of public health

2. By downplaying, minimising, or obscuring the risks, or just pretending they don’t exist at all and you’re an anti-vax nut if you even entertain the possibility, it makes it difficult not just for patients, but apparently physicians, to adequately understand and assess the risks and make informed decisions about these vaccines, including on how to treat patients if serious adverse effects are experienced.

3. In a similar fashion, by presenting the vaccines as some kind of miracle cure that will see normalcy restored to the world in a matter of weeks/months, instead of adequately reckoning with the real-world shortcomings of these vaccines, it has the potential to undermine genuinely effective measures that reduce individual infection and communal transmission alike, such as masking, ventilation, etc., or lockdowns and border shutdowns for those jurisdictions that use those strategies. This could have serious long term consequences on a large scale.

If I may, I think the main takeaway here is not that the vaccines are bad and no one should take them at all (though IM Doc can certainly correct me if I’m wrong), but that they have a risk profile all their own and the obfuscation of this fact, in the interest/at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies, or for whatever reason, is bad for a few salient reasons (in my own, potentially meagre understanding):

1. It weakens trust, which ought to be a sine qua non of public health

2. By downplaying, minimising, or obscuring the risks, or just pretending they don’t exist at all and you’re an anti-vax nut if you even entertain the possibility, it makes it difficult not just for patients, but apparently physicians, to adequately understand and assess the risks and make informed decisions about these vaccines, including on how to treat patients if serious adverse effects are experienced.

3. In a similar fashion, by presenting the vaccines as some kind of miracle cure that will see normalcy restored to the world in a matter of weeks/months, instead of adequately reckoning with the real-world shortcomings of these vaccines, it has the potential to undermine genuinely effective measures that reduce individual infection and communal transmission alike, such as masking, ventilation, etc., or lockdowns and border shutdowns for those jurisdictions that use those strategies. This could have serious long term consequences on a large scale.

You are correct in every way in my opinion.

I am not anti-vaccination –
However – I am very much attuned to people’s risk profiles. And we should be much more clear with people that this is not a “risk-free” endeavor.

You are correct in every way in my opinion.

I am not anti-vaccination –
However – I am very much attuned to people’s risk profiles. And we should be much more clear with people that this is not a “risk-free” endeavor.

You are correct in every way in my opinion.

I am not anti-vaccination –
However – I am very much attuned to people’s risk profiles. And we should be much more clear with people that this is not a “risk-free” endeavor.

Thank you for the IM Doc post. I was a board certified internist who practiced in the Midwest for 35 years before retiring 22 years ago. A longer perspective than the present pandemic is necessary to understand what is and has happened in medicine and public health. My first semester in medical school the tuition was $500 which was the same as the last semester at my undergrad private liberal arts alma mater. The Midwestern state in which I grew up and had all my graduate and medical training had in the early 1960’s an understood policy that the state was responsible to provide a medical education for the medical care of its residents. That education was superb and highly individualized with several mentors and covered nine years. It served me well in Vietnam and then in private practice. Beginning roughly 25 years ago the Dean’s letter requesting donations noted that state funds provided less than 5% of the medical schools operating budget. And that hasn’t changed.
The states obligation had dropped out of sight and as it did tuition sky-rocketed. Then in the 1980’s states decided public health funding could decrease and it did at the state and national level which along with the financial crises of 2000 and 2008 ended up with fewer funds for public health. Then with the Trump administration the CDC was further marginalized, the FDA corrupted and science in general demeaned in government.

As the pandemic exploded here in the US the information we got from the President and Fox was idiotic and the info from CNN and MSNBC with dozens of epidemiologists, ER docs, pulmonologists who were not explaining to me why the protean aspects of Covid-19 were occurring particularly the clotting issue. Renal dialysis machines clotting off was particularly striking. By April 2000 I had not seen a pathology study of the lung or any other organ which in medicine has been the foundation of beginning to understand a new disease.
The idea of a “storm” inflammatory and clotting factors by its simplicity was too easy. The fact that the endothelium (the lining cells of all arteries, arterioles, capillaries, veins, the heart and lymphatics) might be involved seemed like a significant step forward. In the lung the alveolus (air sac) becomes partially fluid filled from the infection and its partner capillary necessary for oxygen exchange clots might well explain the precipitous fall in oxygen levels. I kept wondering where is the Dr. Don Seldin, the Dr. John Hickam, other Deans and heads of Dept of Medicine? These were the real critical thinkers in medicine and I didn’t hear such a voice.

It has become clear that the pandemic of early 2020 is not the pandemic of late 2020 and 2021. The moveable parts of the pandemic change and keep changing including infectivity, age distribution of the infected, hospitalizations and deaths, the attempt to develop a vaccine infrastructure on the run with its increasing evident defects as IM Doc points out.

My conclusions follow:
1. The loss of the sense of health as “the public good” for medical education and public health has corrupted health care and a significant cause of outrageous cost.
2. My hat if off to those medical personal on the front line in the doctors office, ER, ICU who have worked to the point of complete exhaustion mentally and physically
3. The loss of a sense of trust will be difficult to and may not change as IM Doc points out
4. The media has failed to educate the public by poor choice of interviewers and interviewees. A doctor held with the respect of a Dr. Don Seldin or Dr. John Hickam should be asking the tough and unfortunately many times unanswerable questions to those physicians best able to respond. Forget the happy talk that has been epidemic during the pandemic. Anything less than honesty is a problem.
5. Profiteering should be criminal whether with a vaccine, masks or other necessary equipment to deal with a public health emergency. Financial penalties and jail time required.
6. Covid-19 is teaching us much about the infection however this is just the beginning and there will be much yet to be learned. Save the happy talk for when hundreds and thousands are not dying of the infection each day. Remember: Nature bats last.
 

Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying, who view the world, society, politics and economics through the lens of evolutionary biologists. They do a free weekly video podcast and Q&A, with additional material for subscribers (mostly Patreon, I think). https://www.youtube.com/c/BretWeinsteinDarkHorse/featured

Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying, who view the world, society, politics and economics through the lens of evolutionary biologists. They do a free weekly video podcast and Q&A, with additional material for subscribers (mostly Patreon, I think). https://www.youtube.com/c/BretWeinsteinDarkHorse/featured

I could not recommend this more highly – I listen to these two on their podcast every week. I do not think there has been a single one that has not made me think hard about all kinds of various issues. And that is very rare these days.

I could not recommend this more highly – I listen to these two on their podcast every week. I do not think there has been a single one that has not made me think hard about all kinds of various issues. And that is very rare these days.

I could not recommend this more highly – I listen to these two on their podcast every week. I do not think there has been a single one that has not made me think hard about all kinds of various issues. And that is very rare these days.

I will add my two cents about the above tweet. Having been informed by a patient experience I had this week.

I think it is critical to note the huge number of nursing home workers that are young women under 40 – both nursing and support staff. I do not have exact numbers but just from experience over 3 decades – I would say that demographic is 50-75% of the employees in nursing homes and rehab centers.

The NYTimes tweet above places the blame of the outbreak of COVID among vaccinated patients and staff at the doorstep of a young unvaccinated female worker. Of course – it is all the fault of the young rube making a disastrous decision. No one ever talks about the actual reasons why she is making that decision.

I have heard all these stories of the menstrual problems after the vaccine for weeks. Because I am an internist, that topic does not come up very often. However, I had my first patient encounter this week with a custodial staff member in a local nursing home. She has had a Mirena IUD in place for the past 12 months. She had minimal but appropriate menstrual flow with the device until late February. She had her 2nd Pfizer shot in late Feb – and then 1 day later began to have profound and severe menstrual flow. Way way worse than ever in her life. She has Obamacare – so she has a $10000 deductible – so she avoids doctor visits like the plague. Her husband finally dragged her in, tired of paying for literally boxes of pads every 2-3 days. She had bled her hemoglobin down to 6. My initial impression was the IUD had become somehow dislodged and damaged her. NOPE – No evidence of that found on exam by OBGYN. Perfect working order. No infections. No nothing – just a very profoundly hypertrophied endometrium. She is going to be fine and getting taken care of. Interestingly, I have NEVER not once seen this kind of thing with an IUD. I have no explanation why this or any other menstrual issues are happening with these vaccines.

BUT she has shared this finding with all the other women at work – and informed me yesterday a not so small number of them had very strange menstrual issues after their shot. Including a 60 something who had her first period in 20 years starting 2 days after her Pfizer 2nd dose.

I would make this point – there were enough women in the vaccine trials – to have noted this problem during the trials. And yet nothing was said. Was it noticed? Was it documented? I have learned from my OB GYN colleagues this week that indeed they have been seeing this issue – not in huge numbers – but definitely a phenomenon.

So you have young women with a problem like this going on at enough frequency that the rumor mill is engaged in a big way. Many know personally women who have stories.

And as usual – crickets chirping – from our federal officials. And they wonder why there is no trust.

You see – as a PCP – I deal with human nature – the human condition. One of the fundamental issues of young people is having children – especially women. You start having this issue occur and no one in authority is even making an attempt to address it – and what do you think is going to happen?

The older I get – the more I am beginning to believe that these elites are really not humans – they may be lizards in disguise after all.

And even more importantly – these young women are critical in the vaccination effort because of their jobs – as documented in the tweet above.

And unfortunately – one has not far to look to see how far the medical elites have their heads up their asses.

Dr. Gawande – I know you live in an ivory tower – and love to make proclamations from on high. Those of us who work with real patients and real people know that if you keep talking like that – the staffs of the nursing homes are just going to walk. Indeed, it has already started – talk to the HR folks in any of them across this country. You pay them so well – that they could just as easily be working at Burger King.

Keep it up – and we will have an even bigger problem than you can even possibly imagine.

My God – a little bit of trust and credibility goes along way. My profession has learned this over decades – and the medical elite in charge have just shat all over that decades of hard work in no time.

Rant off.

I have been saying this for weeks – and will say so again.

All that were freely willing to be vaccinated have been. We are now left with the doubtful, the skeptical and the downright hostile.

Some counties in America have been lucky enough to get to 50% vaccinated rates. Some are still in the 20s. All are closing their vaccine centers because that time has now passed.

I talk to these hesitant folks all the time. I absolutely assure you the LAST thing that will change their mind is haughtiness and name-calling like these people like Eschaton and others are doing. It will do far more to cement their position in place. As far as MAGA – you would be shocked at the number of blue liberals who are refusing the vaccine as well. This is really not all about politics. There are a myriad of things rolling around people’s brains and souls.

I had one in my office today – a former state health department leader. The comment she made that stuck with me – was “I notice that there are now vaccine ads all over the place. Have you ever wondered why there is not a rushed 30 second list of all the side effects at the end like all the other pharmaceutical ads are forced to do? It makes you wonder doesn’t it?”

If anyone out there can help me with an answer to that question, please do so. And believe me – equally probing questions are coming right and left all day for me.

My patients are not dumb. They are not “chuds”. They are people concerned about their own lives and the lives of their community. Many of them feel like they are being lied to. These are people who would line up at blood drives and do anything for their community. They are very likely to have taken all required vaccinations in the past. I am not sure how I will ever convince any of them. The conspiracy theories are running at a fever pitch – and the most concerning thing about that is I see no one in any position of authority doing a thing about it.

We do indeed live in interesting times.

>Whatever. Focus on getting them to everyone who wants them more than trying to convince MAGA chuds

MAGNA Chuds? I didn’t know that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was a MAGNA. Marginalize those with have criticisms of WHO, Bill Gates, vaccine immunity liability, and all those other tin-hat wearing conspiracist theory aficionados and you will never get a majority to vaccinate. Yeah, concentrate on those who you can convince to get it.

I have friends/family on both sides of the issue of getting vaccinated. If you can’t be respectful, and all you can do is virtue signal, than good luck Mr. Eschaton. The true Eschaton will see who was right.

>Whatever. Focus on getting them to everyone who wants them more than trying to convince MAGA chuds

MAGNA Chuds? I didn’t know that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was a MAGNA. Marginalize those with have criticisms of WHO, Bill Gates, vaccine immunity liability, and all those other tin-hat wearing conspiracist theory aficionados and you will never get a majority to vaccinate. Yeah, concentrate on those who you can convince to get it.

I have friends/family on both sides of the issue of getting vaccinated. If you can’t be respectful, and all you can do is virtue signal, than good luck Mr. Eschaton. The true Eschaton will see who was right.

I have been saying this for weeks – and will say so again.

All that were freely willing to be vaccinated have been. We are now left with the doubtful, the skeptical and the downright hostile.

Some counties in America have been lucky enough to get to 50% vaccinated rates. Some are still in the 20s. All are closing their vaccine centers because that time has now passed.

I talk to these hesitant folks all the time. I absolutely assure you the LAST thing that will change their mind is haughtiness and name-calling like these people like Eschaton and others are doing. It will do far more to cement their position in place. As far as MAGA – you would be shocked at the number of blue liberals who are refusing the vaccine as well. This is really not all about politics. There are a myriad of things rolling around people’s brains and souls.

I had one in my office today – a former state health department leader. The comment she made that stuck with me – was “I notice that there are now vaccine ads all over the place. Have you ever wondered why there is not a rushed 30 second list of all the side effects at the end like all the other pharmaceutical ads are forced to do? It makes you wonder doesn’t it?”

If anyone out there can help me with an answer to that question, please do so. And believe me – equally probing questions are coming right and left all day for me.

My patients are not dumb. They are not “chuds”. They are people concerned about their own lives and the lives of their community. Many of them feel like they are being lied to. These are people who would line up at blood drives and do anything for their community. They are very likely to have taken all required vaccinations in the past. I am not sure how I will ever convince any of them. The conspiracy theories are running at a fever pitch – and the most concerning thing about that is I see no one in any position of authority doing a thing about it.

We do indeed live in interesting times.

I have been saying this for weeks – and will say so again.

All that were freely willing to be vaccinated have been. We are now left with the doubtful, the skeptical and the downright hostile.

Some counties in America have been lucky enough to get to 50% vaccinated rates. Some are still in the 20s. All are closing their vaccine centers because that time has now passed.

I talk to these hesitant folks all the time. I absolutely assure you the LAST thing that will change their mind is haughtiness and name-calling like these people like Eschaton and others are doing. It will do far more to cement their position in place. As far as MAGA – you would be shocked at the number of blue liberals who are refusing the vaccine as well. This is really not all about politics. There are a myriad of things rolling around people’s brains and souls.

I had one in my office today – a former state health department leader. The comment she made that stuck with me – was “I notice that there are now vaccine ads all over the place. Have you ever wondered why there is not a rushed 30 second list of all the side effects at the end like all the other pharmaceutical ads are forced to do? It makes you wonder doesn’t it?”

If anyone out there can help me with an answer to that question, please do so. And believe me – equally probing questions are coming right and left all day for me.

My patients are not dumb. They are not “chuds”. They are people concerned about their own lives and the lives of their community. Many of them feel like they are being lied to. These are people who would line up at blood drives and do anything for their community. They are very likely to have taken all required vaccinations in the past. I am not sure how I will ever convince any of them. The conspiracy theories are running at a fever pitch – and the most concerning thing about that is I see no one in any position of authority doing a thing about it.

We do indeed live in interesting times.

I have been saying this for weeks – and will say so again.

All that were freely willing to be vaccinated have been. We are now left with the doubtful, the skeptical and the downright hostile.

Some counties in America have been lucky enough to get to 50% vaccinated rates. Some are still in the 20s. All are closing their vaccine centers because that time has now passed.

I talk to these hesitant folks all the time. I absolutely assure you the LAST thing that will change their mind is haughtiness and name-calling like these people like Eschaton and others are doing. It will do far more to cement their position in place. As far as MAGA – you would be shocked at the number of blue liberals who are refusing the vaccine as well. This is really not all about politics. There are a myriad of things rolling around people’s brains and souls.

I had one in my office today – a former state health department leader. The comment she made that stuck with me – was “I notice that there are now vaccine ads all over the place. Have you ever wondered why there is not a rushed 30 second list of all the side effects at the end like all the other pharmaceutical ads are forced to do? It makes you wonder doesn’t it?”

If anyone out there can help me with an answer to that question, please do so. And believe me – equally probing questions are coming right and left all day for me.

My patients are not dumb. They are not “chuds”. They are people concerned about their own lives and the lives of their community. Many of them feel like they are being lied to. These are people who would line up at blood drives and do anything for their community. They are very likely to have taken all required vaccinations in the past. I am not sure how I will ever convince any of them. The conspiracy theories are running at a fever pitch – and the most concerning thing about that is I see no one in any position of authority doing a thing about it.

We do indeed live in interesting times.

I agree.

These issues are not common in my area. But this is an entire bag of worms which my colleagues back in the big city have been screeching about for weeks. I think the most frustrating thing to them is no effort seems to be happening to help the situation.

There is some movement with the locked-in elderly. But all the other issues you describe are real and ongoing.
 

IM Doc, I suspect your reasoning is correct for the area in which you live–which you have previously indicated is reasonably well-to-do. However, there are many people who can’t take off work, or don’t have transportation to a vaccination site, or don’t have someone to look after their kids while they get the shot. Others, who don’t have green cards, may still not entirely believe that someone isn’t going to find out about them and deport them. Too many people still believe it’s easy to get a vaccine now, but even here in the Chicago area we’ve seen how Walgreens has managed to discourage people by having a completely unworkable system. There has also been, imo, far too much dependence on computer-driven information. The poor and many of the elderly don’t depend on computers the way we commenting at NC do. I still believe there are many who could be vaccinated if we took a more human approach to them and understood their limitations.

IM Doc, I suspect your reasoning is correct for the area in which you live–which you have previously indicated is reasonably well-to-do. However, there are many people who can’t take off work, or don’t have transportation to a vaccination site, or don’t have someone to look after their kids while they get the shot. Others, who don’t have green cards, may still not entirely believe that someone isn’t going to find out about them and deport them. Too many people still believe it’s easy to get a vaccine now, but even here in the Chicago area we’ve seen how Walgreens has managed to discourage people by having a completely unworkable system. There has also been, imo, far too much dependence on computer-driven information. The poor and many of the elderly don’t depend on computers the way we commenting at NC do. I still believe there are many who could be vaccinated if we took a more human approach to them and understood their limitations.

I agree.

These issues are not common in my area. But this is an entire bag of worms which my colleagues back in the big city have been screeching about for weeks. I think the most frustrating thing to them is no effort seems to be happening to help the situation.

There is some movement with the locked-in elderly. But all the other issues you describe are real and ongoing.
 

I agree.

These issues are not common in my area. But this is an entire bag of worms which my colleagues back in the big city have been screeching about for weeks. I think the most frustrating thing to them is no effort seems to be happening to help the situation.

There is some movement with the locked-in elderly. But all the other issues you describe are real and ongoing.
 

I agree.

These issues are not common in my area. But this is an entire bag of worms which my colleagues back in the big city have been screeching about for weeks. I think the most frustrating thing to them is no effort seems to be happening to help the situation.

There is some movement with the locked-in elderly. But all the other issues you describe are real and ongoing.
 

As a Pennsylvanian, I can understand the bizarre reporting error. Vaccine distribution in my state has been an embarrassment. Huge surpluses of vaccines in rural mountain counties, with the collar counties of Philadelphia whining about how they couldn’t get any. Have to wonder how many went in the trash.

Most of the people I know that have gotten one has virtually gotten it by accident (showing up and seeing if they have any extra at EOB) or lying and saying that they’re a cigarette smoker (know more than one person who did this).

I know 90 year olds who couldn’t get it and 45 year olds who did because they were payroll desk jockeys for an ‘essential’ corp. Dumb.

Now, all of a sudden, there’s huge amounts of vaccine all over the place and outlets like Penn Medicine are begging people to come.

Welcome to Pennsylvania, where we’re neither #1 or #50 on any measure, but somehow manage to do things worse than everyone else.

As a Pennsylvanian, I can understand the bizarre reporting error. Vaccine distribution in my state has been an embarrassment. Huge surpluses of vaccines in rural mountain counties, with the collar counties of Philadelphia whining about how they couldn’t get any. Have to wonder how many went in the trash.

Most of the people I know that have gotten one has virtually gotten it by accident (showing up and seeing if they have any extra at EOB) or lying and saying that they’re a cigarette smoker (know more than one person who did this).

I know 90 year olds who couldn’t get it and 45 year olds who did because they were payroll desk jockeys for an ‘essential’ corp. Dumb.

Now, all of a sudden, there’s huge amounts of vaccine all over the place and outlets like Penn Medicine are begging people to come.

Welcome to Pennsylvania, where we’re neither #1 or #50 on any measure, but somehow manage to do things worse than everyone else.

This helps explain it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/millions-of-americans-are-skipping-their-second-shot/ar-BB1g2K7X?ocid=uxbndlbing

Don’t want to clutter up the comments section, so I’m replying to myself, but I wondered if the reason that we’re seeing cases/deaths going down at the same time as vaccine uptake is that all the extroverts and restaurant-goers have all gotten their vaccines. So the people doing the most hobnobbing and such are set with their vaccine and thus not spreading it anymore.

The inspiration for this idea was a meme I saw recently. It went something like this: “It took the pandemic for me to realize that many people’s entire personality was based around going to restaurants.”

Someone should institute a quick Myers Briggs at the door to see if the I or E’s are getting vaccinated.

Don’t want to clutter up the comments section, so I’m replying to myself, but I wondered if the reason that we’re seeing cases/deaths going down at the same time as vaccine uptake is that all the extroverts and restaurant-goers have all gotten their vaccines. So the people doing the most hobnobbing and such are set with their vaccine and thus not spreading it anymore.

The inspiration for this idea was a meme I saw recently. It went something like this: “It took the pandemic for me to realize that many people’s entire personality was based around going to restaurants.”

Someone should institute a quick Myers Briggs at the door to see if the I or E’s are getting vaccinated.

This helps explain it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/millions-of-americans-are-skipping-their-second-shot/ar-BB1g2K7X?ocid=uxbndlbing

This helps explain it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/millions-of-americans-are-skipping-their-second-shot/ar-BB1g2K7X?ocid=uxbndlbing

This helps explain it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/millions-of-americans-are-skipping-their-second-shot/ar-BB1g2K7X?ocid=uxbndlbing

Yep, you got it. 22 year old (might even qualify as a Gen Z at that point).

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/29/962190196/why-philadelphia-gave-a-22-year-olds-startup-a-vaccine-contract-then-canceled-it

And here’s the article about the shortchanging of the Philadelphia counties:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawmakers-say-southeastern-pa-shortchanged-by-100k-vaccine-doses/ar-BB1enoKI

And if you’re really masochistic, here’s a great incidence of “Grifters gonna grift” when it comes to wealthy Chester County and their thousands of useless testing kits. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9312803/Pennsylvania-county-blocks-workers-sharing-job-related-info-COVID-scandal.html

PA is the poster child for incompetence. Somehow, we have managed not to have the absolute worst numbers in the country, but it isn’t for lack of trying.

Please correct me if I am recalling this incorrectly.

One of the most hilarious stories coming out of COVID so far I believe happened in Philadelphia. Early on in the vaccine push, the county had handed over the vaccine logistics to a company of millenials. The ensuing fiasco was just hilarious to read. The fact that it was ever allowed is staggering.

I think that was in Philly – I may be incorrect.

It appears things started in PA with a bomb and never turned around.

Please correct me if I am recalling this incorrectly.

One of the most hilarious stories coming out of COVID so far I believe happened in Philadelphia. Early on in the vaccine push, the county had handed over the vaccine logistics to a company of millenials. The ensuing fiasco was just hilarious to read. The fact that it was ever allowed is staggering.

I think that was in Philly – I may be incorrect.

It appears things started in PA with a bomb and never turned around.

Yep, you got it. 22 year old (might even qualify as a Gen Z at that point).

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/29/962190196/why-philadelphia-gave-a-22-year-olds-startup-a-vaccine-contract-then-canceled-it

And here’s the article about the shortchanging of the Philadelphia counties:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawmakers-say-southeastern-pa-shortchanged-by-100k-vaccine-doses/ar-BB1enoKI

And if you’re really masochistic, here’s a great incidence of “Grifters gonna grift” when it comes to wealthy Chester County and their thousands of useless testing kits. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9312803/Pennsylvania-county-blocks-workers-sharing-job-related-info-COVID-scandal.html

PA is the poster child for incompetence. Somehow, we have managed not to have the absolute worst numbers in the country, but it isn’t for lack of trying.

Yep, you got it. 22 year old (might even qualify as a Gen Z at that point).

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/29/962190196/why-philadelphia-gave-a-22-year-olds-startup-a-vaccine-contract-then-canceled-it

And here’s the article about the shortchanging of the Philadelphia counties:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawmakers-say-southeastern-pa-shortchanged-by-100k-vaccine-doses/ar-BB1enoKI

And if you’re really masochistic, here’s a great incidence of “Grifters gonna grift” when it comes to wealthy Chester County and their thousands of useless testing kits. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9312803/Pennsylvania-county-blocks-workers-sharing-job-related-info-COVID-scandal.html

PA is the poster child for incompetence. Somehow, we have managed not to have the absolute worst numbers in the country, but it isn’t for lack of trying.

Yep, you got it. 22 year old (might even qualify as a Gen Z at that point).

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/29/962190196/why-philadelphia-gave-a-22-year-olds-startup-a-vaccine-contract-then-canceled-it

And here’s the article about the shortchanging of the Philadelphia counties:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawmakers-say-southeastern-pa-shortchanged-by-100k-vaccine-doses/ar-BB1enoKI

And if you’re really masochistic, here’s a great incidence of “Grifters gonna grift” when it comes to wealthy Chester County and their thousands of useless testing kits. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9312803/Pennsylvania-county-blocks-workers-sharing-job-related-info-COVID-scandal.html

PA is the poster child for incompetence. Somehow, we have managed not to have the absolute worst numbers in the country, but it isn’t for lack of trying.